Where did all the Muslims, in RFs, go?!

[Wandering Monk]

There are people who think the two are mutually exclusive. The words I have seen here on RF are something like this:

"There are two Islams. One in the public, and one in private. The one in private is the "real" Islam. The other version is "fake" and it is just what They want outsiders to see. All Muslims are violent on the inside."

If you want evidence of this, PM me, and I can easily pull the quotes for you.

So, how did the perception of Muslims being violent get started?

 

[SalixIncendium]

So, how did the perception of Muslims being violent get started?

Really?

Terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[dybmh]

So, how did the perception of Muslims being violent get started?

Bad apples spoil the bunch...

The loudest people with the most extreme behavior are deemed to be representative of the collective.

It's text book stereotyping.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Bad apples spoil the bunch...

The loudest people with the most extreme behavior are deemed to be representative of the collective.

It's text book stereotyping.

You mean all these bad apples?

List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia

 

[icehorse]

And Islamophobia is alive and well in the Jewish community. I have first hand knowledge. It is most often found in the elder generation. But, the Islamophobic elders look for opportunities to indoctrinate the children with their own poisoned point of view.

I'm not disagreeing, but I would like more information. The thing I see is anti-Muslim bigotry but that's VERY DIFFERENT than "Islamophobia", which I see as a dishonest word.

 

[sooda]

There are people who think the two are mutually exclusive. The words I have seen here on RF are something like this:

"There are two Islams. One in the public, and one in private. The one in private is the "real" Islam. The other version is "fake" and it is just what They want outsiders to see. All Muslims are violent on the inside."

If you want evidence of this, PM me, and I can easily pull the quotes for you.

Wow... That's quite a claim.

 

[Revoltingest]

We used to have many Muslims here, in RF..

Most of them were sunnis..

Some of them were Wahhabis and extermists..

Some seem to support the terrorists..

However it seems that most of them have left..

I think part of the story has to do with the rise of Islamophobia, around the world, and hence here in our platform..

For me I stayed for two reasons:

Firstly, being a Shia Muslim means that I See all of the Muslim Caliphs, except for Ali and his son (they are the prophet Muhammad cousin and grandson) are corrupt leaders who hijacked Islam..

So, to a degree, I distinguish between Islam as a religion , and the History of the Muslims, throughout which the Shiites have been persecuted..

Secondly, I am very open-minded person, and have no problem talking with people who have harsh opinions about Islam and the Muslims..

So, what is your take on the subject?!!

I've noticed a few friends missing.
Was it something I said?

 

[icehorse]

I think they left because their doctrine wouldn’t withstand independent scrutiny.

I also think Islamophobia is a made up word to conflate hatred of and bigotry towards Muslims with legitimate criticism of Islam

@dybmh ,

daniel makes CRUCIAL points here. Muslims make the following three claims about Islam:

1 - The Quran is the perfect, timeless, unalterable word of god.
2 - Muhammad was the perfect role model.
3 - Islam is a religion of peace.

Taken together, they are incoherent claims. They cannot all be true.

This is a real problem that Muslims must face. Their ancient claims DO NOT hold up to scrutiny. If non-Muslims ignore the incoherence of these claims then I would say they are guilty of "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

 

[Laika]

Gratefully, there are those of us, like @sooda and myself, who will do the work of researching and defending Islam ( the religion ) and supporting peaceful Muslims against stereotypes that miss-represent them.

I'd say that's very courageous of you to do that. I hope it goes well.

 

[Niblo]

I've noticed a few friends missing.
Was it something I said?

Nah, Jock. It'll be yer wee flatulence......after all the haggis

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Islam is a religion of peace.

Muslims don't claim that. That was something said by Bush Jr. after 9/11. Islam is not a pacifist religion as defensive warfare and self-defense is allowed. I'm sure there's some Muslims who are pacifists, though.

 

[dybmh]

I'm not disagreeing, but I would like more information. The thing I see is anti-Muslim bigotry but that's VERY DIFFERENT than "Islamophobia", which I see as a dishonest word.

What I am observing is Fear. That's why I cannot and do not cast judgement against those in my own community who are Islamophobic. No one makes rational judgments while they are afraid.

 

[dybmh]

Wow... That's quite a claim.

Send me a PM and I will send you the quotes. I am 100% certain on this because it was a very memorable thread. It was maybe... 2 months ago.

 

[dybmh]

@Wandering Monk and @sooda ,

I have lifted the restriction on sending me Private Messages so that you both can request the quotes I am speaking about. If I understand, It may take an hour for the web-server to refresh the permissions.

 

[dybmh]

You mean all these bad apples?

List of Islamist terrorist attacks - Wikipedia

Yeah. Not only that but a Conservative Shul was attacked in 2018... so, ya know.... the fear has a real, current, rational source.

But that doesn't mean that the stereotype accurately describes Islam or Muslims. Please tell me that you and I are in agreement on this?

 

[sooda]

Send me a PM and I will send you the quotes. I am 100% certain on this because it was a very memorable thread. It was maybe... 2 months ago.

You are saying that some thread proved that all Muslims are violent in secret?

 

[dybmh]

@dybmh ,

daniel makes CRUCIAL points here. Muslims make the following three claims about Islam:

1 - The Quran is the perfect, timeless, unalterable word of god.
2 - Muhammad was the perfect role model.
3 - Islam is a religion of peace.

Taken together, they are incoherent claims. They cannot all be true.

This is a real problem that Muslims must face. Their ancient claims DO NOT hold up to scrutiny. If non-Muslims ignore the incoherence of these claims then I would say they are guilty of "the soft bigotry of low expectations".

Yes. But the question is, do Muslims seek or value "independent scrutiny" as @danieldemol's claim implies.

I vote no. They do not care about that at all. But they are human beings, so, the insults and unfair judgments will take their toll.

Here's how I feel: it makes sense to apply scrutiny to an idea or a doctrine if someone is actively promoting it as "the best". It's not appropriate to criticize and scrutinize a doctrine or religion when some one says, "It's mine".

People seem to pick on Islam simply because it exists, and they pick on Muslims simply because they are Muslims. When someone makes a ridiculous claim, by all means, apply the full force of critical analysis against it. But the claim "It's mine" is not a claim of "it's the best". And until someone says "It's the best"; i think it's rude to begin scrutinizing their religion without empathy.

 

[dybmh]

You are saying that some thread proved that all Muslims are violent in secret?

No.

I'm sorry, I have probably typo'd or something again.

Here's what I'm saying: Starting at the beginning...

@Wandering Monk asked me a specific question: "Why would anyone be afraid of Peaceful Muslims?" I said: Because they ( these people who are afraid ) do not beleive that Muslims can be peaceful. Note: I don;t hold this view at all. I think it's hogwash. But I was giving @Wandering Monk the answer to the question. In support of this, there happens to be a thread about 2 months ago where an individual demonstrated a "fear" of peaceful Muslims. And the reasons they gave were: "There are 2 Islams the one in public and the one in private.... All Muslims are secretly violent."

I'm paraphrasing, but, I promise I was like that. And I recognize how shocking it may be for people to read these words. And it may be hard to fathom that anyone on RF would type out these words. But... it's true. I remember it vividly because of how shocking it was for me. That's why I offered to provide the quotes. because it is shocking, and I don't expect people to believe me without reading it for themselves.

Does that help?

 

[sooda]

No.

I'm sorry, I have probably typo'd or something again.

Here's what I'm saying: Starting at the beginning...

@Wandering Monk asked me a specific question: "Why would anyone be afraid of Peaceful Muslims?" I said: Because they ( these people who are afraid ) do not beleive that Muslims can be peaceful. Note: I don;t hold this view at all. I think it's hogwash. But I was giving @Wandering Monk the answer to the question. In support of this, there happens to be a thread about 2 months ago where an individual demonstrated a "fear" of peaceful Muslims. And the reasons they gave were: "There are 2 Islams the one in public and the one in private.... All Muslims are secretly violent."

I'm paraphrasing, but, I promise I was like that. And I recognize how shocking it may be for people to read these words. And it may be hard to fathom that anyone on RF would type out these words. But... it's true. I remember it vividly because of how shocking it was for me. That's why I offered to provide the quotes. because it is shocking, and I don't expect people to believe me without reading it for themselves.

Does that help?

Yes.. thank you for straightening me out.. I was fighting a compulsion to rip you a new one.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We used to have many Muslims here, in RF..

Most of them were sunnis..

Some of them were Wahhabis and extermists..

Some seem to support the terrorists..

However it seems that most of them have left..

I think part of the story has to do with the rise of Islamophobia, around the world, and hence here in our platform..

For me I stayed for two reasons:

Firstly, being a Shia Muslim means that I See all of the Muslim Caliphs, except for Ali and his son (they are the prophet Muhammad cousin and grandson) are corrupt leaders who hijacked Islam..

So, to a degree, I distinguish between Islam as a religion , and the History of the Muslims, throughout which the Shiites have been persecuted..

Secondly, I am very open-minded person, and have no problem talking with people who have harsh opinions about Islam and the Muslims..

So, what is your take on the subject?!!

I think it was in part due to current events, and the sharp and rightly deserved criticism Islam received due to the actions of their brothers and sisters of the faith.

A few were very candid and straightforward in their opinions and while the honesty is respected , the feedback was not supportive of a number of those views. It's not surprising that they did not stick around.