whats your beef with brexit?

[England my lionheart]

The Maastricht treaty, agreed and signed by the uk along with the UKs rather unique power of veto guaranteed independence.

Guaranteed independence,really if we were that independent we should be able to just walk away.

But of course, the government of the uk would always be quick to point the finger at the EU for the UKs failures. And some people will always be gullible enough to accept the propaganda

I don't blame the EU for the failures of the UK government I only see the EU as a fail,it's not even an equal partnership,in comparison to most members we had a good deal but as we've seen it's not the case for poorer members,great for the banks though.

 

[England my lionheart]

Which would that independence even be in actual reality of facts?

A democracy which the EU isn't.

Did it even exist at any point?

Yes,check out our history.

Would it even be a good thing if it somehow existed?

Absolutely.

I just don't think that is in any way, shape or form true.

Well we can agree to disagree I guess.

 

[England my lionheart]

Because it's massively damaging both to our economy and our standing in the world and there are no benefits (unless you really like blue passports, which we actually could have had anyway).

We should have gone for a hard fair brexit,take it or leave it then if it was no deal the world would see we played or part.

 

[ratiocinator]

We should have gone for a hard fair brexit,take it or leave it then if it was no deal the world would see we played or part.

What the world would, and does, see is us acting in bad faith and engaging in a pointless act of national self-harm based on a delusional notion of our importance in world and sold to the population through misinformation and electoral fraud.

 

[Notanumber]

Do you remember the good old days when Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Jones used to tell the truth about the EU?

The left must now campaign to leave the EU | Owen Jones

 

[ChristineM]

I don't blame the EU for the failures of the UK government I only see the EU as a fail,it's not even an equal partnership,in comparison to most members we had a good deal but as we've seen it's not the case for poorer members,great for the banks though.

Yeah all the banks are pulling out of the UK.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yeah all the banks are pulling out of the UK.

Do you really think banks have a country?

 

[England my lionheart]

What the world would, and does, see is us acting in bad faith and engaging in a pointless act of national self-harm based on a delusional notion of our importance in world and sold to the population through misinformation and electoral fraud.

Actually no,a hard brexit would be the norm for any negotiating for any country,you can't negotiate for a better deal starting with a low bid,you say delusional but the fact still remains we voted to leave,some goalosts can't be moved.

 

[ratiocinator]

Actually no,a hard brexit would be the norm for any negotiating for any country,you can't negotiate for a better deal starting with a low bid,you say delusional but the fact still remains we voted to leave,some goalosts can't be moved.

Based on misinformation and fraudulent spending. What's on the table now (May's deal or no deal) bears no resemblance to what was talked about in the referendum campaign. Sticking doggedly to a result that was gained under false pretences, is not democracy.

As I said earlier in the thread, it will get reversed anyway (the younger generations are pro-EU), it's just a matter of how much money, time, and damage to our international standing it will take to get there.

 

[Altfish]

Actually no,a hard brexit would be the norm for any negotiating for any country,you can't negotiate for a better deal starting with a low bid,you say delusional but the fact still remains we voted to leave,some goalosts can't be moved.

The country didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit; it voted for what we were sold; "The easiest deal ever", Staying in the Single Market and £350m a week for the NHS - oh, and no immigration.

 

[Altfish]

Do you really think banks have a country?

But the people who work for them do.
Very high paid jobs moving abroad, loss of tax income

 

[England my lionheart]

But the people who work for them do.
Very high paid jobs moving abroad, loss of tax income

How many and how much do they contribute?

 

[Altfish]

How many and how much do they contribute?

Not a clue, but banks are moving and jobs are going. Many of them highly paid - it is the Tory press who go on about Bankers' Bonuses and fat Cats - like it or not they do pay tax, money that will now head elsewhere.

 

[England my lionheart]

The country didn't vote for a No Deal Brexit; it voted for what we were sold; "The easiest deal ever", Staying in the Single Market and £350m a week for the NHS - oh, and no immigration.

The country didn't vote for the maastrich treaty either but I get what your saying although that's standard lying for everything we vote for in elections,it's not like nobody has lied before to get a vote.

 

[Altfish]

The country didn't vote for the maastrich treaty either but I get what your saying although that's standard lying for everything we vote for in elections,it's not like nobody has lied before to get a vote.

The Government did ratify (Is that the correct word?) the treaty though. We can't have referendums on everything.

 

[Altfish]

The country didn't vote for the maastrich treaty either but I get what your saying although that's standard lying for everything we vote for in elections,it's not like nobody has lied before to get a vote.

The BIG difference is that a general elections can be reversed every 5-years at most - so if you lied about what you were going to deliver you have to stand up to explain it.
On that basis we need a second referendum.

 

[England my lionheart]

The BIG difference is that a general elections can be reversed every 5-years at most - so if you lied about what you were going to deliver you have to stand up to explain it.
On that basis we need a second referendum.

A second referendum,well if the vote went for remain how likely is the EU going to keep the same deal as before,it would feel like going cap in hand for charity,I hope that doesn't happen.

 

[Altfish]

A second referendum,well if the vote went for remain how likely is the EU going to keep the same deal as before,it would feel like going cap in hand for charity,I hope that doesn't happen.

Oh, I'm not saying it is easy and I very much doubt it will happen. But all this "Will of the people" nonsense is sounding very hollow if they don't have the confidence to put it to the vote again.

 

[ratiocinator]

A second referendum,well if the vote went for remain how likely is the EU going to keep the same deal as before,it would feel like going cap in hand for charity,I hope that doesn't happen.

The ECJ has already ruled that we can unilaterally revoke article 50 and keep exactly the same terms as we have now: ECJ ruling on Article 50.

We would need to ask for an extension to hold a referendum but I don't see the EU27 blocking that in those circumstances and, if they did, we could always revoke anyway and the re-invoke Article 50 if the vote went for leave.

 

[ChristineM]

Do you really think banks have a country?

Well the coop bank does.

But my point being many of those banks with corporate offices in the UK, are leaving the sinking ship to base themselves in europe. At a cost of thousands of veryvery paid jobs.

But never mind, those unemployed bankers can take the low paid hospital and farming jobs traditionally taken my immigrants and refugees. So thats all ok then