What Rights Does Trump Have In the Impeachment Process?

[Subduction Zone]

Was it any different when Clinton was impeached by Republicans in the late 90s?

The Democrats have given Trump more rights than the Republicans gave Clinton.

 

[Ouroboros]

No matter, they must find a high crime, to impeach. That crime must meet all of the elements of a crime in a penal code or statute.

Are you sure about that?

Then as now, there was an ongoing scholarly debate over the meaning of the phrase “high Crimes and Misdemeanors.”11×11. U.S. Const. art. II, § 4. Most people, including a majority of the House of Representatives, interpreted the phrase to refer not to literal crimes or misdemeanors but to any serious abuses of presidential power.12×12. See Cong. Globe, 40th Cong., 2d Sess., Supp. 411 (1868). This interpretation remains the dominant one 150 years later. In the words of Professor Laurence Tribe and Joshua Matz, the majority view is that a president can legally be impeached for “intentional, evil deeds”13×13. Laurence Tribe & Joshua Matz, To End a Presidency 42 (2018). that “drastically subvert the Constitution and involve an unforgivable abuse of the presidency” — even if those deeds didn’t violate any criminal laws.14×

Source: High Crimes Without Law

 

[Stanyon]

But, the 'crimes' are totally different.
Sexual indiscretion leading to lying - let's be honest, that's Trump's hobby versus dodgy with foreign countries.

The "crimes" were perjury and obstruction of justice on Clinton's part

 

[Polymath257]

The Harvard Law Review disagrees with you.


High Crimes Without Law

Also, the Constitution lists two other reasons for impeachment besides "high crimes and misdemeanors:" treason and bribery. As this article describes, a strong case could be made for bribery... along with all the other strong cases that can be made for other aspects of Trump's wrongdoing:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...mmitted-democrats-arent-really-talking-about/

Not to mention his violations of the emoluments clause, for example. he has violated his oath multiple times.

 

[Polymath257]

The "crimes" were perjury and obstruction of justice on Clinton's part

Exactly. Trump does both on a daily basis. Well, since he rarely goes under oath, perhaps not the first. he lies on a daily basis about fundamentals of his job, though. And obstruction of justice is clear.

 

[Ouroboros]

The "crimes" were perjury and obstruction of justice on Clinton's part

Yup. Lying about having an affair and/or what they were doing. Pretty serious.

I believe that if they send a federal agent to Trump to ask about what he did, there would be the same case against him. He can't tell the truth even if it was written on a teleprompter. He would lie to the agent within the first minute.

 

[sealchan]

To an extent you are right. When the star chamber moves into public hearings, schiff has forty five minutes of time for each witness, all else have five minutes.

The democrats can subpoena whomever they choose, the Republicans must get schiffs approval to subpoena.

Fairness, compared to the Nixon and Clinton impeachment is totally absent.

No matter, they must find a high crime, to impeach. That crime must meet all of the elements of a crime in a penal code or statute. So far, they are having problems with this.

As I have predicted, it is a wasted exercise that accomplishes nothing other than to show that democrats aren´t really interested in dealing with the serious problems of the nation.

Removal from office means the senate must say it is required. So, when after impeachment the articles go to the Senate, mc Connell could say the process was so blatantly unfair, he recommends a vote on whether a trial should even be held. The Republican majority could quash the trial right then.

If it goes to trial, twenty Republican senators must vote for removal, which will never happen.

In the end the whole circus will expose the democrats as whinney babies who forgot the country in their zeal to overturn the election of 2016.

I wanted them to go down this path.

With their collection of presidential candidates, impeachment, and kowtowing to the leftist idiots, they are destroying their party, which is all good.

You don't listen to what the other side tells you so you are left with a story of your own invention. It is clear not only to people within the administration but to nearly half of the country that Trump needs to be removed from office. It was never about his politics but always about his moral and ethical character. He was immoral and unethical as he stood on the stage with over a dozen other respectable Republican presidential candidates in 2016. He was immoral and unethical as his administration had record turnover while he was in office with a majority in both the Senate and the House. He belittled those who sincerely recused themselves due to ethical considerations. He was dismissive of those who told the truth after they left his corrupt administration. He even has a group within his adminstration acting as the "adult in the room". What other administration ever took their leader for such a child as has this president's administration?

If you think that the Republican held Senate can easily dismiss an impeachment proceeding and expect to easily win re-election, then sit back and enjoy your victory. If not then be sure to come back to this forum and eat your proverbial hat.

We saw what happened in the House of Representatives in 2018. Independents decide the issues when Democrats and Republicans are at odds and the number aren't moving in the right direction for your particular cause:

Poll: Independents Move In Favor Of Impeachment Inquiry; GOP Stays Firmly Against

 

[Stanyon]

Exactly. Trump does both on a daily basis. Well, since he rarely goes under oath, perhaps not the first. he lies on a daily basis about fundamentals of his job, though. And obstruction of justice is clear.

Clinton was found guilty of it, Trump has not been

 

[Stanyon]

Yup. Lying about having an affair and/or what they were doing.

It started with a sexual harassment case with Paula Jones, do we remember how she was treated?

 

[Ouroboros]

It started with a sexual harassment case with Paula Jones, do we remember how she was treated?

Oh. Yeah. Forgot about that one. That's definitely a case of abuse of power. Someone using their power of influence to get other people to do them favors.

 

[Stanyon]

Oh. Yeah. Forgot about that one. That's definitely a case of abuse of power. Someone using their power of influence to get other people to do them favors.

You attempted to diminish the Clinton impeachment to it was just an affair which was disingenuous, now you refer to your own opinion which is irrelevant. Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice while Trump has not

 

[Polymath257]

Clinton was found guilty of it, Trump has not been

Actually, not. He was acquitted in the Senate after being impeached in the House. He was not removed from office, either.

And we are still not yet at the impeachment stage with Trump. It is pretty clear he *will* be impeached. Whether he is convicted or not will depend on the Reps in the Senate.

 

[Ouroboros]

You attempted to diminish the Clinton impeachment to it was just an affair which was disingenuous, now you refer to your own opinion which is irrelevant. Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice while Trump has not

Sorry if I touched a nerve. Wasn't the perjury and obstruction related to the investigation into the sexual harassment? Basically, if they do the inquiry and have a hearing with Trump and he lies, it would be the same situation and same obstruction?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

He has all the rights that he would be accorded in any court of law. I think Pelosi and the Democrats were quite smart about that. The fact is, the Constitution grants a President under impeachment no rights in the proceeding, while the House has granted him the right to be considered innocent until judged guilty, to counsel -- present in the hearings, to object, personally or through counsel, and so forth. You can't get much fairer or more open than that.

 

[Milton Platt]

To an extent you are right. When the star chamber moves into public hearings, schiff has forty five minutes of time for each witness, all else have five minutes.

The democrats can subpoena whomever they choose, the Republicans must get schiffs approval to subpoena.

Fairness, compared to the Nixon and Clinton impeachment is totally absent.

No matter, they must find a high crime, to impeach. That crime must meet all of the elements of a crime in a penal code or statute. So far, they are having problems with this.

As I have predicted, it is a wasted exercise that accomplishes nothing other than to show that democrats aren´t really interested in dealing with the serious problems of the nation.

Removal from office means the senate must say it is required. So, when after impeachment the articles go to the Senate, mc Connell could say the process was so blatantly unfair, he recommends a vote on whether a trial should even be held. The Republican majority could quash the trial right then.

If it goes to trial, twenty Republican senators must vote for removal, which will never happen.

In the end the whole circus will expose the democrats as whinney babies who forgot the country in their zeal to overturn the election of 2016.

I wanted them to go down this path.

With their collection of presidential candidates, impeachment, and kowtowing to the leftist idiots, they are destroying their party, which is all good.

I believe they have good reasons to follow the impeachment route. but I agree that they need to be more even handed about the process.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

He has all the rights that he would be accorded in any court of law. I think Pelosi and the Democrats were quite smart about that. The fact is, the Constitution grants a President under impeachment no rights in the proceeding, while the House has granted him the right to be considered innocent until judged guilty, to counsel -- present in the hearings, to object, personally or through counsel, and so forth. You can't get much fairer or more open than that.

I'm sure some Trumpeters will insist the only way it can be fair is for Trump to be the investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner.

 

[sun rise]

The "crimes" were perjury and obstruction of justice on Clinton's part

And we're seeing obvious obstruction on the part of the current regime by demanding that people ignore a valid Congressional summons. Those who refuse should be locked up until they comply.

 

[Altfish]

The "crimes" were perjury and obstruction of justice on Clinton's part

Like I said, Trump's hobby

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm sure some Trumpeters will insist the only way it can be fair is for Trump to be the investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner.

This is obviously somewhat absurd, but not more absurd than the Democrats and their premise that there even needs to be an impeachment process at all presently. If they had *anything* they wouldn't have to sweat to get some sort of process rolling at all, but instead they're just on a fishing expedition in the desert. Now, each day that goes on for the worse it looks for them. It makes Trump look right and that's never a win politically.

 

[Howard Is]

He can't tell the truth even if it was written on a teleprompter. He would lie to the agent within the first minute.

He is a habitual and flagrant liar, never admits error and has a grandiose sense of specialness and entitlement.
That combination spells Personality Disorder, and that makes the whole world nervous.