1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured "What Jesus REALLY meant was ...."

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by John1.12, May 24, 2021.

  1. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +276
    Religion:
    Christian
    Do you want me to post you from LDS .org about Jesus being Lucifers brother ?
     
  2. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +276
    Religion:
    Christian
    Christians do not believe that God is merely an exalted man who earned his position by good works (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321;
     
  3. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +276
    Religion:
    Christian
    Those who follow the Mormon faith also believe that they can attain heaven through works (Doctrine and Covenants 58:42–43; 2 Nephi 9:23–24; Alma 34:30–35; Articles of Faith, p.92). While they claim faith in Christ, they also rely on following the commandments of the Mormon Church (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p 188; Mormon Doctrine, p. 670) and practicing good works (2 Nephi 25:23; Alma 11:37) in order to achieve salvation.
     
  4. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    17,053
    Ratings:
    +12,127
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    @Barry Johnson please do not take what i am about to ask as an attack of your Christian belief or you as a person.

    My question is: Is the way you believe in Jesus and Christianity in your view the only way anyone can believe? Every other way of being a Christian or holding other religious beliefs is wrong or evil?

    Can it be that others who follow Christ differently actually has it right?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  5. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2018
    Messages:
    519
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Christian
    It is evident that there can be some variance between what people may claim and the factual truth.

    Since God who inspired the holy Bible "cannot lie" (Titus 1:2), His inspired expressions on this subject are the most authoritative, we benefit by adjusting our views to harmonize with the Bible. If we are uncertain that the Bible is completely reliable, accurate and inspired then we should first seek to establish this.

    A very good method for determining what God's view is on any subject is to search a Bible index and consider (in proper context) all the scriptures dealing with that particular subject.

    Personally reading his word the bible in prayerful and sincere personal study will lead to accurate knowledge and the ability to confirm this matter for one's self.

    A comprehensive Bible index search and cross-referencing regarding Jesus verifies his identity. It is as summarized by John:

    "...the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth." (John 1:14)

    Other scriptures reveal Jesus as God's heavenly son, the "master worker" through whom he created all other things, the ancient Word" of God through whom God spoke to his covenant people Israel, the "prince" of Israel through whom God led and protected his faithful people; the promised 'seed' which would through his life sacrifice repurchase imperfect humanity from Adamic sin, and the king of God's heavely kingdom which would vanquish corrupt human government, resurrect the dead and restore paradise and human perfection during the millenial reign. Colossians 1:15-17; John 17:5; Ephesians 1:9, 10; Matthew 1:23; 6:9, 10; Mathew 19:28; John 18:36; Daniel 2:44; 7: 14, 18; Revelation 14: 1-4; 5:9,10; 20:6; 21:2-4

    "the Triumphant One (Excellency, Eminence" of Israel will not prove false" (1 Samuel 15:29) is a prophetic of Jesus the messiah and king of God's kingdom who was born in the lineage of king David. (Luke 1: 32, 33)

    Any claims that actually contradict Bible prophecy or accounts inspired by God simply have no effect or bearing on the factual truth or on true worship. It is better not to pay attention to claims that are not in harmony with divinely inspired scripture but to verify the truth for one's self as dedication to God is personal.


    Hence the advice to Titus was " ...paying no attention to ... fables and commandments of men who turn themselves away from the truth" (Titus 1: 14) , regardless of their origin. Rather, as Jesus own prayer to His heavely father regarding his disciples was: "Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth" (John 17:17)

    It seems you are thus correct in identifying the variance of claims that contradict to Bible truth because doing so promotes an "accurate knowledge" of God, and such is the 'knowledge that leads to everlasting life' (John 17:3)

    P
     
  6. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2018
    Messages:
    519
    Ratings:
    +265
    Religion:
    Christian
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    13,118
    Ratings:
    +3,411
    Religion:
    Islam
    Who wrote Titus?
     
  8. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +276
    Religion:
    Christian
    My question is: Is the way you believe in Jesus and Christianity in your view the only way anyone can believe? Every other way of being a Christian or holding other religious beliefs is wrong or evil?

    Can it be that others who follow Christ differently actually has it right?//
     
  9. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    17,053
    Ratings:
    +12,127
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    You just qouted back what i asked you about, without answering the question?
     
  10. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +276
    Religion:
    Christian
    //My question is: Is the way you believe in Jesus and Christianity in your view the only way anyone can believe? //

    If what I believed contradicted the bible, it would be a problem.

    //Every other way of being a Christian or holding other religious beliefs is wrong or evil?//

    If someone believes something contrary to the Scriptures, it is Just that basically. Contrary to the Scriptures. If they believing something contrary to the bible as a believer who is saved ( maybe its on the timing of the rapture ,or OSAS , or some non essential things) Well this is one thing. I don't believe any differences will send a person to hell . I don't believe a Christian can lose salvation. But if an unsaved person believes something contrary to the Scriptures, something that means they don't appropriate salvation then this makes all the difference. Then if this teaching prevents others from seeing the truth and appropriating salvation then even worse. God will be the Judge of that .

    //Can it be that others who follow Christ differently actually has it right?//

    This is kinda answered above . ( and I don't see you attacking me ,your responses are always cordial and respectful ) if a person is saved, and lets say one person decides that Saturday is the day he wants to worship God , or maybe he believes some doctrines differently then the bible actually covers this . People grow and understand at different speeds. All believers ( i believe) will never be lost . Getting saved to start with is the critical thing. Maturing in the faith is another matter. The Lord is long-suffering , patient and doesn't reject you when you stumble as a child of God . The point is to become a child of God to start with. I believe other teachings contrary to scripture lead people away from this ever happening to someone because they don't find the way to be saved . Its like when you want to direct your own kids to the correct choices. There lots of claims out there . But I believe God has only given one way , one choice .
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +276
    Religion:
    Christian
    typo sorry
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    17,053
    Ratings:
    +12,127
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    Thank you for your reply @Barry Johnson :) Now i have a more clear way of understanding your previous answers both in this thread and in other threads i seen you write :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    17,053
    Ratings:
    +12,127
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    No harm done
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    13,118
    Ratings:
    +3,411
    Religion:
    Islam
    So you believe your "hypothetical" Q or/and Q-lite was the "words of your master"? Can you prove that? Do you have anything like Paleographic dating, or anything to date it, and make it words of your master?

    Peace.
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    13,118
    Ratings:
    +3,411
    Religion:
    Islam
    How are you convinced? With what standard? After all, there is nothing called Q-lite which is birds invention. Same questions still stands.

    Whats the dating to it? How do you date it? How do you determine authorship? What is the method?
     
  16. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,573
    Ratings:
    +464
    Religion:
    Disciple
    Jesus is my Lord, not Paul. Jesus never said that after he left a guy, who he never taught, would come along with a new Gospel and that his letters would be converted into "the Word of God" and made equal to Jesus!

    It was Peter and Paul who compromised the original Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven. They did not remain true to the Gospel that Jesus taught, the one that got his killed.
     
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    13,118
    Ratings:
    +3,411
    Religion:
    Islam
    Differences dont prove that they are Jesus's actual words.

    Is there any evidence at all? Is there even a philosophical argument? You have a lot of words but no evidence whatsoever. Just belief statements. "I believe this is so it must be true" is not any valid.

    Dont eternally try to explain what Q and Q-lite is. It is very very well known, and Q-lite is not even an established source but Birds source. You are not even aware of who developed it but you have faith in it and you keep sharing the same old article every single time.

    But what you dont understand is, Q, it just a common source. It does not mean it is dated the 20 or 30 years earlier, it does not mean it is "original", it does not mean it was even text. It could very well be a form.

    So is there any evidence at all??
     
  18. Jane.Doe

    Jane.Doe Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    537
    Ratings:
    +145
    Religion:
    Mormon Christian
    @Barry Johnson , your entire anti-Mormon stance is based on inaccurate information (either flat out lies or half-truths) and hypocritical duel standards. You and I have already talked about many of these claims, I've shared with you correct information, and been blatantly ignored again and again. Frankly, I don't see any benefit in spending my time explaining things again, and watching you ignore them again.
     
  19. Marcion

    Marcion gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,794
    Ratings:
    +957
    Religion:
    None! Panentheism; Neo-Humanism; Orthodox Tantra-Yoga; Manava (human) Dharma
    You sound like a fundamentalist who are also never satisfied with valid arguments but keep shouting for evidence. ;)
    For me it is evidence enough. If you have a better idea, please come with it.
    It's very easy to keep laying turds on other people's ideas.
    Don't ask if you're not interested in any answers.

    I think you are trying to change the subject, it has nothing to do with tolerance or intolerance nor with preaching or non-preaching. But I understand that those subjects are very important to you. ;)
     
    #239 Marcion, May 26, 2021
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    35,176
    Ratings:
    +16,723
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Why don't you actually look it up for yourself, as it's right there in Acts.
     
Loading...