What have we done to deserve this ?

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

There is not a single week where I do not hear about destroyed temples, vandalized murtis, priests killed, forced conversions and forced marriage of hindu girls...

I am really, really sick of it.

I am sick to see these on the news. So look at those with me:

Look at those too, because this is NEVER talked about, it happens almost daily now and NOBODY cares, not even the police, nothing happens. Nobody helps or even acknowledge that it is happening.
But should a Hindu raise a hand on a Muslim, OH BEWARE, this is hate and certainly not self defense.

Now what do I want ? I want the answer of this, very, single, question :

What have we (Hindus) done to deserve this ?


Are we waging war or terrorizing people around the world ? No. Are we forcing people to convert or proselytizing actively ? No. Are we discriminating against other religions ? No. Are we claiming that we are the only ones to hold some kind of truth and dismiss other religions as false ? No. Do we even discriminate against atheists ? No.

So what ?

Tell me, really, I want to know what horrible things me and my Hindu bothers and sisters have done. I want to hear a good reason, really, am open to understand what is so ****ing wrong with us to deserve such gratuitous hate and destruction.


Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Sees]

The patience and tolerance Hindus have generally shown to Islam over the years is very remarkable.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Absolutely barbaric behaviour, completely unacceptable. If Hindus did something like this to a mosque or a copy of the Quran there'd be a flash mob and people would die. Governments need to start taking pro-active steps to curb this sort of behaviour. Punitive measures would work best - for every temple or shrine vandalised, burned or otherwise damaged by Muslims, 1 mosque in the country should be closed until the damaged Hindu structure is repaired and reopened for worship. If they want to deny non-Muslims their places of worship then Muslims should lose their own as reciprocal punishment.

 

[Sundance]

I'm very sorry that this sort of heartless act happened, @JayaBholenath. It breaks my heart to see such a level of disrespect shown from the followers of one religion to another. It's not OK!!

BTW, are the central murtis in the bottom image Radha and Krishna?

 

[Quintessence]

As much as I aim to be respectful of all religions, I will confess I at times have difficulty with the exclusivist monotheisms, precisely because they foster this sort of thing. Hinduism is the one major surviving bastion of Paganism that resisted conquest, but they are not immune from new attempts by exclusivist monotheists who regard their practices as baneful. Polytheistic religions are ignored in the international dialogue, or they are painted as "really" monotheism in vain attempts at universalism. Meanwhile, the overt signs of polytheism like these beautiful shrines and statues get vandalized.

Coverage of religion is poor in the media on the whole, though, thus perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised when these things don't get reported. It is especially poor for anything that isn't one of the big three monotheisms. You have to go to specialty news outlets for that. At least that seems to be the picture in the States; not sure about elsewhere.

If there are many who are concerned about these incidents, is there an organized group to help increase awareness and to maybe take donations to help vandalized temples with repair costs? I wager there'd be support for that. Whenever things in the Western Pagan community get vandalized like this (it happens, during the rare times we actually have infrastructure) the community often comes out in support to rebuild things.

 

[Burl]

I want to know what horrible things me and my Hindu bothers and sisters have done.

It's not what you have done, it's what you might do.

Mara ... is the demon that tempted Gautama Buddha... Mara personifies unwholesome impulses, unskillfulness, the "death"[2] of the spiritual life. She is a tempter, distracting humans from practising the spiritual life by making mundane things alluring, or the negative seem positive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't agree with the actions taken.

Taking your question literally though, if you are really asking what Hindus have done, then I think you mean is "What have they done differently to be singled out in such a way?" It isn't so much what you personally have done as it is an attack upon your way of life. The message to you is "Change your way of life."

 

[Aupmanyav]

What have we (Hindus) done to deserve this ?

Tell me, really, I want to know what horrible things me and my Hindu bothers and sisters have done. I want to hear a good reason, really, am open to understand what is so ****ing wrong with us to deserve such gratuitous hate and destruction.

I belong to a community of which nearly the whole (300,000) people have been forced to leave their home and hearth and seek refuge in other parts of India - tha Kashmiri brahmins.

The Sunni Muslims have done this to other people also - the Christians in Pakistan and Syria/Iraq, the Yezidis, the Druze. They have done it to their own shias in Pakistan and Syria/Iraq, the Balochs, the Kurds, the Houtis in Yamen. I can only surmise that they have gone mad..

As for what we can do - hardly anything. Do we attack Pakistan or Bangladesh (which presently has a secular government. That they are not able to control the Muslim extremists is another story)? Or do we kill the 172 million Indian Muslims (most of them innocent) and make them move to the two neighbors - another blood bath like in 1947.

 

[crossfire]

Barbaric.

 

[George-ananda]

I think there are probably Muslims in India that will give you what they claim to be good reasons for their hatred of the Hindu majority. A cycle of hatred is hard to break when there will always be immature elements on both sides that will keep the pot stirred. It's unfortunate, but I am an optimist and believe the future will gradually be better.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

Jaya; Im really sorry for your troubles my friend..Understand - its not Hindus as such - its EVERYONE none muslim - THEY are the problem - NOT the Hindus - not the Christians who despite their differences BOTh religions are tolerant and compassionate mostly - but this "islam" is not like other religigions at all...

As I have just posted elsewhere here - there is simply NO WAY TO LIVE WITH MUSLIMS - and REMAIN a none muslim - they are ORDERED to either convert you or destroy you - it is their whole religious agenda to make EVERYONE a muslim without any exceptions....They will keep attacking you in this vicious manner unttl you bow down - they will treat you in all manner of despicable nasty and outright evil ways to force you to either move away, pay them to stop or convert - if you resist or if they are able to do so, then they WILL MURDER YOU just for your your NONE muslim belief - and yes Folks it really is that simple...They are ORDERED to do it like a mandate direct from their "god" so this is a holy command to enslave the world, basically and your people as none muslims are now casualties of their agenda ..

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

BTW, are the central murtis in the bottom image Radha and Krishna?

Vanakkam, yes, these are the remnants of Sri Radha and Sri Krisna

Coverage of religion is poor in the media on the whole, though, thus perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised when these things don't get reported. It is especially poor for anything that isn't one of the big three monotheisms. You have to go to specialty news outlets for that. At least that seems to be the picture in the States; not sure about elsewhere.[/COLOR][/FONT]

Here, every time a mosque, church or synagogue is vandalized or has any sort of problems, it makes big news. Others doesn't seems to even exist or at best nobody cares.
I agree with what you say and find this very sad, indeed. I am not surprised if pagans deal with those acts too... Unfortunately
Am trying to contact some people there to know if anything can be done to help...

A cycle of hatred is hard to break when there will always be immature elements on both sides that will keep the pot stirred. It's unfortunate, but I am an optimist and believe the future will gradually be better.

I do agree with you, Ji. I facepalm the same whenever I see Hindu retaliation on Muslims on the news. Hate should not be answered with hate. I am not against muslims at all, there are not the only one persecuting Hindus, but a few of them are certainly the most virulent. Should I hold grudge to my muslim neighbor ? No. He did not do anything. He is a nice guy with a family. Got no reason to chop his head off over what's happening.

However, as optimistic as I am too, there is just no point in staying idle and waiting.

Hindus in Bengladesh have received death and bombing threats if they dared celebrate Yath Rathra. What did they do ? They celebrated it with a renewed enthusiasm, and peacefully. Here in France ? We cancelled almost all summer cultural and secular events, without even receiving threats.Tell me, in which one of those case those disgusting barbarians wins ?

There shouldn't be any bloodshed. But awareness, awareness on all this is key. People should know, those things should not be forgotten.

........

Again, this thread is not a call to war or discrimination toward Muslims. FYI, christian missionaries are still very active (especially in south India) and use equally disgusting and deceitful ways to convert the Hindus there. Should I blame you and all christians here for this ? No, not at all.
Hate leading to hate and bringing more violence and more blood, in a vicious circle where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone and it never ends. It is an absolute sterile way to think and to act.

I am at peace with my muslims neighbors, I am not at peace with those barbarians there. There is a difference.


Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[Brickjectivity]

FYI, christian missionaries are still very active (especially in south India) and use equally disgusting and deceitful ways to convert the Hindus there.

I doubt that they burn temples or force conversions.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

I doubt that they burn temples or force conversions.

Vanakkam,

They don't burn temples, but they do force conversions.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Vanakkam,

They don't burn temples, but they do force conversions.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think there are probably Muslims in India that will give you what they claim to be good reasons for their hatred of the Hindu majority. A cycle of hatred is hard to break when there will always be immature elements on both sides that will keep the pot stirred. It's unfortunate, but I am an optimist and believe the future will gradually be better.

I agree, but I want to point out that besides immaturity, social,economic and political unease also plays a significant role.

 

[MD]

Religions and cultures are extensions of nature, and as such will try and outcompete each other. It's a form of cultural selection. If you are weak, the stronger ones will subdue you and eventually destroy you.

Support BJP and RSS more and you will have a unified, united and protected Hindu population. Other minorities such as my own will also benefit from this. Promote martial arts with a Buddhist/Hindu perspective. Glorify the Sikhs, the Marathas, the Rajputs, etc just like the Mughals and the Islamic conquests are glorified in Pak and Bangladesh. Purge Leftist ideology, especially the communists. They will only weaken society. Bollywood also has a lot of people who work against India. Make more movies like Lakshya and less movies on bull****.

You Hindus have been the most tolerant religion in history. The caste system is your only blemish. You don't deserve this, but life is not about deserving something or not deserving it. Life is about preparation, to work, to fight and to win. You don't have to attack anyone, but be so strong that no one will attack you. Eak Zindagi, eak Lakshya.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Hi Folks...

Jaya; Im really sorry for your troubles my friend..Understand - its not Hindus as such - its EVERYONE none muslim - THEY are the problem - NOT the Hindus - not the Christians who despite their differences BOTh religions are tolerant and compassionate mostly - but this "islam" is not like other religigions at all...

As I have just posted elsewhere here - there is simply NO WAY TO LIVE WITH MUSLIMS - and REMAIN a none muslim - they are ORDERED to either convert you or destroy you - it is their whole religious agenda to make EVERYONE a muslim without any exceptions....They will keep attacking you in this vicious manner unttl you bow down - they will treat you in all manner of despicable nasty and outright evil ways to force you to either move away, pay them to stop or convert - if you resist or if they are able to do so, then they WILL MURDER YOU just for your your NONE muslim belief - and yes Folks it really is that simple...They are ORDERED to do it like a mandate direct from their "god" so this is a holy command to enslave the world, basically and your people as none muslims are now casualties of their agenda ..

Okay, I'll bite. I am not ordered to either convert or destroy all non-Muslims. I don't condone murder or this kind of senseless vandalism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is awful. To be fair, there is a problem with Hindu religious fanaticism and mosques and churches have been vandalized and destroyed. Sometimes they try to force Christians and Muslims to convert to Hinduism. It's quite a sad situation all around. Let's not act like only one community is to blame for the violence and strife in India. There's plenty of nastiness on all sides.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror
http://www.loonwatch.com/2014/04/na...se-of-indias-neo-fascist-far-right-the-facts/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_the_Babri_Masjid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Christian_violence_in_India

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Jaya;

Again, this thread is not a call to war or discrimination toward Muslims. FYI, christian missionaries are still very active (especially in south India) and use equally disgusting and deceitful ways to convert the Hindus there. Should I blame you and all christians here for this ?

Ah my friend - no hatred needed - just pragmatic HONESTY...Consider - if you have a pack of wild dogs in the town that terrorise and attack without mercy - what do you do..?...you REMOVE them - or as a last resort, you must kill them - this necassary action has nothing to do with "hatred" and everything to do with Self protection and freedom....

Oh and btw - for my Self I follow the legitimate Christ - Hes not a religious figure at all - no religion gives HIS truth as it is always a personal revelation

Religions are ALWAYS a hinderance Folks - should be avoided - just look at the division they bring ALWAYS !!

Yaquub;

Okay, I'll bite. I am not ordered to either convert or destroy all non-Muslims.

Really..??....Seems you must be reading a different book to the rest then..here are some examples to show you (all) clearly the agenda here..

Quran (8:38-39) - “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven... And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Translation from the Noble Quran

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Suras 9 and 5 are the last "revelations" that Muhammad narrated - hence abrogating what came before, including the oft-quoted verse 2:256 -"There is no compulsion in religion...".

Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..." Prayer and charity are among the Five Pillars of Islam, as salat and zakat. (See below). The Quran thus sanctions violence as a means of coercing religion.

Quran (9:11) - (Continued from above) "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion"In conjunction with the preceding passage, this confirms that Muhammad is speaking of conversion to Islam. Quran (9:56-57) - "And they swear by Allah that they are most surely of you, and they are not of you, but they are a people who are afraid (of you). If they could find a refuge or cave or a place to enter into, they would certainly have turned thereto, running away in all haste." This refers to people living with the Muslim tribe who may not be true believers, but must pretend to be in order to survive. They have no safe refuge to escape the Muslims. If Islam were a religion of peace, then why the fear?

Quran (2:193) - "And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers." The key phrase here is to fight until "religion be only for Allah."

Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?"

Pretty clear really - convert ALL none muslims - or DESTROY all none muslims - no middle ground..Thas direct from your "holy book" yes..??....And this next is what your leaders interpret it to mean.

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat." The first part of this condition is the Shahada, or profession of faith in Islam. Violence is thus sanctioned until the victims embrace Muhammad's religion.

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" Osama bin Laden echoes this order from his prophet: "Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam … . Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.” (source: The al-Qaeda Reader p. 19-20)
Bukhari (8:387) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah.'"

Bukhari (53:392) - "While we were in the Mosque, the Prophet came out and said, "Let us go to the Jews" We went out till we reached Bait-ul-Midras. He said to them, "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. So, if anyone amongst you owns some property, he is permitted to sell it, otherwise you should know that the Earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle."

Bukhari (2:24) - "Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Bukhari (60:80) - "The Verse:--'You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind.' means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam."

Bukhari (60:40) - "...:And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)." 'Affliction' of Muslims is defined here as a condition in which others worship a different god other than Allah. Muslims are commanded to use violence to 'rectify' the situation.

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" Words of a military leader who Muhammad sent on an expedition with the mission of destroying a local religion in Yemen.

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 959 - Then the apostle sent Khalid bin Walid… to the Banu al-Harith and ordered him to invite them to Islam three days before he attacked them. If they accepted then he was to accept it from them, and if they declined he was to fight them. So Khalid set out and came to them, and sent out riders in all directions inviting the people to Islam, saying, “If you accept Islam you will be safe.” So the men accepted Islam as they were invited. The text goes on to say that Khalid taught the al-Harith about Islam after their "conversion," proving that it was based on fear of slaughter rather than a free and intelligent decision.

Ibn Kathir (Commenting on Quran 2:256, which says "let there be no compulsion in religion") - "Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the jizya, they should be fought till they are killed."

And again - that REALLY clear and undeniable - muslims ARE ordered to force conversion or destroy ALL none believers !!