What happened to the non-Muslims in Arabia?

[sooda]

The Arabs didn't write a great deal down. Other than the Quran, it is the best part of 2 centuries before we get many Arabic texts appearing. As a result not a great deal is known as much of the "history" that appeared in the 8th/9th C is more like theology and should be no more taken at face value than the historicity of events described in the Bible.

We do know that many Christians and Jews were involved in the "Muslim" conquests though, as this is noted in non-Muslim sources.

In addition, the people who were conquered in the decades after Muhammad's death didn't really know that their conquerors had a new religion, so the idea that there were mass forced conversions is obviously false. It's also debatable whether they even had a new religion at this point. Muhammad was definitely seen as a prophet, and certainly had some specific teachings, but it's a bit the the question of when Christianity gained a reified identity outside of Judaism which is open to much dispute.

In general the Arabs just asked for tribute from conquered people and left them to run their own affairs. There likely wouldn't have been much tangible difference for most people, their gold was just going to Arabs instead of Romans of Persians.

It is also possible that non-Arabs were given greater religious leeway than Arabs though.

Back up and study some history of the Levant and the middle east.

Well done.

 

[icehorse]

So google the answer to your question. .. and get a map..

I know where they are. All I'm saying is that if it was safe to visit and I was allowed to, I would go visit those sites. It's hard for me to imagine I'm unique in that way?

Then look at domestic violence in the US.

I already responded to your question about domestic violence in the US. Yours is a sort of non-sensical question. There are many ills in the world, that doesn't mean we have to discuss them all at the same time, correct?

The key idea in what I said earlier was "domestic violence IN THE NAME OF ISLAM". Of course I understand that around the world there are many horrible reasons that domestic violence occurs. And all these reasons should be attacked. But "in the name of X" is a sufficiently large problem that we can comfortably address it all on its own, correct?

(BTW, earlier today I started a thread about abuses committed by priests in the RCC.) One topic per thread grasshopper.

 

[sooda]

Can we shed some light on the differences between Wahhabi and Salafi Islam? They're used interchangably but our allies are Saudi Arabia and they're Wahhabi while our enemy ISIS is Salafi. Also Al Qaeda is Qutb even though the only difference between ISIS and Al Qaeda is whom should be leader. Taliban are Deobandi.

Prince Muhammad bin Salman says he wants to open Saudi Arabia up to all faiths

They don't stone people in KSA.. Never have.. Look to rural Pakistan or Afghanistan for stoning.

 

[2ndpillar]

I always thought it had more to do with respect... which may be he reason ARAMCO was so successful in Arabia. We thought we were all goodwill Ambassadors for America.

It was all about oil money. Your Aramco produced income to Saudi Arabia, and they allowed you your gated villages, where you could continue your idol worship without interruption.

 

[2ndpillar]

They don't stone people in KSA.. Never have.. Look to rural Pakistan or Afghanistan for stoning.

You need to inform the mirror.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-stoned-death...
Nov 27, 2015 · Woman to be stoned to death for adultery in Saudi Arabia - while male partner to receive 100 lashes. The married 45-year-old was working as a maid in Riyadh and was convicted of …

 

[sooda]

It was all about oil money. Your Aramco produced income to Saudi Arabia, and they allowed you your gated villages, where you could continue your idol worship without interruption.

LOLOL Nobody stayed in the oil camps... and most ARAMCO workers were Saudi Arabs. Your ignorance is really boundless.

 

[sooda]

You need to inform the mirror.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/woman-stoned-death...
Nov 27, 2015 · Woman to be stoned to death for adultery in Saudi Arabia - while male partner to receive 100 lashes. The married 45-year-old was working as a maid in Riyadh and was convicted of …

Wrong country.. check the story. They don't stone people in Arabia.. Isn't the Mirror one of those rags that claims alien babies and such? Is that your usual news source?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They don't stone people in Arabia..

Right. They just behead people with a sword in the middle of the road on busy intersections.
So it's totally unfair to consider it a barbaric society.

 

[sooda]

Right. They just behead people with a sword in the middle of the road on busy intersections.
So it's totally unfair to consider it a barbaric society.

So you are opposed to capital punishment for murderers and terrorists?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Its not a tourist destination.. which is what it was before Islam. They want to guard against that. I lived there for many years and I like visiting historic places. but have no interest in going to Mecca.

Why do Islam's defenders always try to imply that Mecca before Islamisation was purely about the money - as if the pre-Islamic Arabs had no sincerely held religious beliefs?

Also, replace 'Arabian polytheism' with 'Islam'; and 'Banu Quraysh' with 'House of Saud' and you'll find the situation is exactly the same as how pre-Islamic Mecca is described in Muslim sources. Concentration of wealth in the hands of a powerful family, to the detriment of the peoples' spiritual health.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So you are opposed to capital punishment for murderers and terrorists?

Atheism (and other forms of apostasy) is a capital crime in KSA. Is that terrorism or murder?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So you are opposed to capital punishment for murderers and terrorists?

Yes.

And especially so when done in such gruesome, primitive and barbaric public ways - where even kids get to see it! And even more so when the crimes are such trivial things that wouldn't even result in ANY sentence at all in a civilized society - not even a fine!

At least in the US they have the decency to execute criminals behind closed doors in a somewhat humane way using heavily regulated injections.

But yes, I oppose that too.

And frankly, I don't get AT ALL how you aren't opposed to BEHEADING PEOPLE WITH A SWORD IN THE MIDDLE OF A PUBLIC BUSY INTERSECTION.


Frankly, I'm seriously judging you for that. You not having a problem with such, and even seemingly defending it, is very very disturbing to me. Extremely disturbing even. So disturbing that I wouldn't want to have you as my neighbour. Seriously.

Not trying to insult you or anything... just being honest. I find it very very unsettling to see someone actually defend such practices.

Even executing Hitler in such a manner would be nothing short of scandalous.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Atheism (and other forms of apostasy) is a capital crime in KSA. Is that terrorism or murder?

Indeed.

But imo we don't even need to go there....

Take the biggest douche in recent history. An Adolf Hitler, for example. I'm heavily opposed to captital punishment, but I must admit that for a dude like him, I'ld likely make an exception.

HOWEVER: not a single hair on my body would EVER think it is okay to execute a monster like that by beheading him with a sword in the middle of a public intersection in broad daylight!!!

I mean... what the hell man??????????
How can anyone in his right mind defend such a thing????

 

[sooda]

Yes.

And especially so when done in such gruesome, primitive and barbaric public ways - where even kids get to see it! And even more so when the crimes are such trivial things that wouldn't even result in ANY sentence at all in a civilized society - not even a fine!

At least in the US they have the decency to execute criminals behind closed doors in a somewhat humane way using heavily regulated injections.

But yes, I oppose that too.

And frankly, I don't get AT ALL how you aren't opposed to BEHEADING PEOPLE WITH A SWORD IN THE MIDDLE OF A PUBLIC BUSY INTERSECTION.


Frankly, I'm seriously judging you for that. You not having a problem with such, and even seemingly defending it, is very very disturbing to me. Extremely disturbing even. So disturbing that I wouldn't want to have you as my neighbour. Seriously.

Not trying to insult you or anything... just being honest. I find it very very unsettling to see someone actually defend such practices.

Even executing Hitler in such a manner would be nothing short of scandalous.

So you don't believe in capital punishment and it should be done in private behind closed doors.

I can't say for certain, but decapitation may be quicker and more merciful than hanging, the gas chamber or lethal injection.

 

[sooda]

Atheism (and other forms of apostasy) is a capital crime in KSA. Is that terrorism or murder?

Nope. Apostacy in Islam is treason.. meaning a person has betrayed the faith and the community. In Arabia if you commit murder, you are automatically guilty of apostacy. Unbelief alone is not a capital crime.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I can't say for certain, but decapitation may be quicker and more merciful than hanging, the gas chamber or lethal injection.

Imagine you and your kids in the US driving out for a day at the beach and having to see and drive under that.

I find this conversation to be utterly appaling and disturbing.
I can only wonder why you would even attempt to defend such barbarism.
I can only wonder why anybody wouldn't just condemn such practices.

Does it matter what those 5 people did or didn't do? NO.
The very idea of living in a society where you get to see such things carried out by authorities as if it is normal is.... shivering.

Seriously, does one really need to explain why such practices shouldn't be tolerated??

Do you REALLY and seriously approve of such things?

 

[sooda]

View attachment 28680

Imagine you and your kids in the US driving out for a day at the beach and having to see and drive under that.

I find this conversation to be utterly appaling and disturbing.
I can only wonder why you would even attempt to defend such barbarism.
I can only wonder why anybody wouldn't just condemn such practices.

Does it matter what those 5 people did or didn't do? NO.
The very idea of living in a society where you get to see such things carried out by authorities as if it is normal is.... shivering.

Seriously, does one really need to explain why such practices shouldn't be tolerated??

Do you REALLY and seriously approve of such things?

You do know that Iran and Saudi Arabia are different countries, don't you?

If I remember correctly Iran executed those men for raping boys. No doubt their laws are clear.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nope. Apostacy in Islam is treason.. meaning a person has betrayed the faith and the community. In Arabia if you commit murder, you are automatically guilty of apostacy. Unbelief alone is not a capital crime.

Not this again.............

Calling apostacy "treason" does not change what apostacy is.
Nore does calling anything and their mother "treason".

 

[sooda]

Not this again.............

Calling apostacy "treason" does not change what apostacy is.
Nore does calling anything and their mother "treason".

We have legal theory in the US too.. Do you know what that means?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You do know that Iran and Saudi Arabia are different countries, don't you?

If I remember correctly Iran executed those men for raping boys. No doubt their laws are clear.

No, it's in Saudi Arabia. In Jizan, to be specific. The location is in front of the University while students are taking exams.... How delightful.

Other sources:
Saudi Arabia executes five Yemenis
Saudi Arabia: six executed, including five Yemenis crucified outside a university
Five Yemenis executed and publically displayed in Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia executes five Yemenis and displays corpses - Reuters