Was Muhammad Peaceful? (Respectful Answers Only Please)

[Madhuri]

Yes, of course. If you are defining going to war (for whatever reason, defensive or otherwise) as non-peaceful, then his actions were non-peaceful.

Regards

If your explanation had been presented in the beginning, I'm sure a lot of the responses would be much different.

I am constantly seeing misunderstandings due to the fact that different people have different definitions but don't let each other know about it!

Thanks, and I hope you are well too

 

[A-ManESL]

I am constantly seeing misunderstandings due to the fact that different people have different definitions but don't let each other know about it!

Yes, you may be right. It is unfortunate.

I am well too

 

[Autodidact]

If you are defining going to war (for whatever reason, defensive or otherwise) as non-peaceful, then his actions were non-peaceful.

Yes, I think most people would define going to war as non-peaceful. Cuz, y'know, peace is the opposite of war.

 

[A-ManESL]

Cuz, y'know, peace is the opposite of war.

Just out of curiosity, Autodidact, would you say that a society where people are living in fear, injustice is being meted out to them and there is no state of war, as a peaceful society?

 

[Wombat]

Yes, I think most people would define going to war as non-peaceful. Cuz, y'know, peace is the opposite of war.

I don't think any generalised claim to insight into what "most people would define" serves to give weight to a pov.

For my money the determination of 'peacefulness' rests on what preceeded the conflict...was it mutual agression or was one party clearly the agressor and the other acting in defence? Did the recipient of agression provoke or exacerbate the situation or seek to avoid and resolve conflict?

My reading of the history of Muhammed (and I have no reason to doubt the veracity and integrity of that recorded history) is that he was impecable and patient in the extreme in backing away from and avoiding agression.

The Hijra, which marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar, comemorates Muhammed sending some of his followers to Abyssinia to avoid ongoing persecution and conflict prior to his taking his remaining followers from Mecca to Medina for the same reason- avoiding conflict.

Enven when he was in a much stronger position and cabable of striking back at his persecutors he delayed and declined to do so.

Muhammed did everything possible to establish his peacefull credentials...then went to war against a persistent and unremitting aggressive enemy.

"Cuz, y'know, peace is the opposite of war"

:no:
As an individual or as a community/nation...when someone forces conflict upon you peace is not the opposite of war....when confronted with agression peace is the outcome of self defence and the responsible defence of others.

 

[Autodidact]

Just out of curiosity, Autodidact, would you say that a society where people are living in fear, injustice is being meted out to them and there is no state of war, as a peaceful society?

You mean like in today's Muslim countries?
I guess that depends what they're afraid of.
It's certainly more peaceful than all that plus war.

In any case, that scenario bears no relationship to what Muhammed did, which was to invade and conquer other tribes in order to impose Islam on them.

 

[Autodidact]

I don't think any generalised claim to insight into what "most people would define" serves to give weight to a pov.

For my money the determination of 'peacefulness' rests on what preceeded the conflict...was it mutual agression or was one party clearly the agressor and the other acting in defence? Did the recipient of agression provoke or exacerbate the situation or seek to avoid and resolve conflict?

My reading of the history of Muhammed (and I have no reason to doubt the veracity and integrity of that recorded history) is that he was impecable and patient in the extreme in backing away from and avoiding agression.
.

That's simply not factual. Muhammad was a conqueror, a general. He led his troops into battle to conquer his enemies, subject them to the rule of Islam and build an empire, and he succeeded, as did those who succeeded him, thereby establishing one of the biggest and most successful empires in history. It was a great achievement, but certainly not peaceful, quite the opposite.

The word for how Muhammed spread Islam is conquest. It's called the Muslim conquest. You can admire his skill as a general, but you can't call him peaceful.

 

[Blackheart]

Enven when he was in a much stronger position and cabable of striking back at his persecutors he delayed and declined to do so.


How were the Muslims being persecuted?

 

[Wombat]

How were the Muslims being persecuted?

“But monotheism is not a popular creed with those whose livelihood depends on idols. Muhammad, once he begins to win converts to the new creed, makes enemies among the traders of Mecca. In 622 there is a plot to assassinate him. He escapes to the town of Yathrib, about 300 kilometres to the north.”

HISTORY OF MUHAMMAD


“In the first three years of his ministry, Muhammad gained only 40 followers. And as his teachings threatened the Meccan way of life, both moral and economic, he and his followers experienced heavy persecution. It first took the form of mockery, but soon turned into open violence. Members of the small movement were stoned, covered in dirt as they prayed, beat with sticks, thrown into prison and refused service by merchants.
Hijira. Persecution continued to increase until Muhammad received some welcome news: he had gained followers in the city of Yathrib, 280 miles north of Mecca”
The Life of the Prophet Muhammad - ReligionFacts

 

[Wombat]

You mean like in today's Muslim countries?
I guess that depends what they're afraid of..

Perhaps they are "afraid of" death and destruction at the hands of poor working class foreign troops from a country that has the most imprisoned population in the world sent to find Weapons of Mass destruction that never existed except the ones previously sold to their dictator (to gas his own people) by the now invading foreign Govt ?


Perhaps people who live in glass Empires shouldn't throw stones?



"Jesus killed Mohammed" Harpers Magazine.


" They were snickering like schoolboys. They had commissioned the Special Forces interpreter, an Iraqi from Texas, to paint a legend across their Bradley’s armor, in giant red Arabic script.
“What’s it mean?” asked Humphrey.
“Jesus killed Mohammed,” one of the men told him. The soldiers guffawed. JESUS KILLED MOHAMMED was about to cruise into the Iraqi night.
The Bradley, a tracked “tank killer” armed with a cannon and missiles—to most eyes, indistinguishable from a tank itself—rolled out. The Iraqi interpreter took to the roof, bullhorn in hand. The sun was setting. Humphrey heard the keen of the call to prayer, then the crackle of the bullhorn with the interpreter answering—in Arabic, then in English for the troops, insulting the prophet. Humphrey’s men loved it. “They were young guys, you know?” says Humphrey. “They were scared.” A Special Forces officer stood next to the interpreter—“a big, tall, blond, grinning type,” says Humphrey.
“Jesus kill Mohammed!” chanted the interpreter. “Jesus kill Mohammed!”
A head emerged from a window to answer, somebody fired on the roof, and the Special Forces man directed a response from an MK-19 grenade launcher. “Boom,” remembers Humphrey. The head and the window and the wall around it disappeared.
“Jesus kill Mohammed!” Another head, another shot. Boom. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” Boom. In the distance, Humphrey heard the static of AK fire and the thud of RPGs..........."

In any case, that scenario bears no relationship to what Muhammed did, which was to invade and conquer other tribes in order to impose Islam on them.

Yea...right..."no relationship".........Muhammed wasn't motivated by oil and excusing his "invade and conquer other tribes in order to impose" 'democracy' with lies about WMDs.

 

[Autodidact]

Perhaps they are "afraid of" death and destruction at the hands of poor working class foreign troops from a country that has the most imprisoned population in the world sent to find Weapons of Mass destruction that never existed except the ones previously sold to their dictator (to gas his own people) by the now invading foreign Govt ?


Perhaps people who live in glass Empires shouldn't throw stones?



"Jesus killed Mohammed" Harpers Magazine.


" They were snickering like schoolboys. They had commissioned the Special Forces interpreter, an Iraqi from Texas, to paint a legend across their Bradley’s armor, in giant red Arabic script.
“What’s it mean?” asked Humphrey.
“Jesus killed Mohammed,” one of the men told him. The soldiers guffawed. JESUS KILLED MOHAMMED was about to cruise into the Iraqi night.
The Bradley, a tracked “tank killer” armed with a cannon and missiles—to most eyes, indistinguishable from a tank itself—rolled out. The Iraqi interpreter took to the roof, bullhorn in hand. The sun was setting. Humphrey heard the keen of the call to prayer, then the crackle of the bullhorn with the interpreter answering—in Arabic, then in English for the troops, insulting the prophet. Humphrey’s men loved it. “They were young guys, you know?” says Humphrey. “They were scared.” A Special Forces officer stood next to the interpreter—“a big, tall, blond, grinning type,” says Humphrey.
“Jesus kill Mohammed!” chanted the interpreter. “Jesus kill Mohammed!”
A head emerged from a window to answer, somebody fired on the roof, and the Special Forces man directed a response from an MK-19 grenade launcher. “Boom,” remembers Humphrey. The head and the window and the wall around it disappeared.
“Jesus kill Mohammed!” Another head, another shot. Boom. “Jesus kill Mohammed!” Boom. In the distance, Humphrey heard the static of AK fire and the thud of RPGs..........."

Yea...right..."no relationship".........Muhammed wasn't motivated by oil and excusing his "invade and conquer other tribes in order to impose" 'democracy' with lies about WMDs.

What does any of this have to do with the subject of this thread? You do know when Muhammad lived, right?

 

[Wombat]

Asked- “Just out of curiosity, Autodidact, would you say that a society where people are living in fear, injustice is being meted out to them and there is no state of war, as a peaceful society?”

You responded- “You mean like in today's Muslim countries?”

Thus placing the conversation in a contemporary context.

Now you wish to plead/pretend we are back and confined to 570–622AD?-

What does any of this have to do with the subject of this thread? You do know when Muhammad lived, right?

While you take a crack at "today's Muslim countries"?

Illogical and weak as....

 

[TJ73]

I've always wondered about this. If it's a cultural thing, then either these cultures were immensely despicable before Islam or Islam hasn't affected the cultures positively pretty much at all. Either way sort of raises eyebrows.

Whether or not Islam has anything to do with it (personally I think despicable, ignorant people will just use whatever they can to justify their actions, not necessarily a religion, as evidenced by the compassionate/reasonable Muslims here on RF) the question remains: if Islam is a "perfect way of life" as its claimed, then why after so many centuries are some Muslim-majority countries still civil rights hellholes, cesspools of ignorance and hate? The Muslim-majority country I can even think of that isn't a cesspool is also the most secular, Turkey.

Christianity seemed to do an OK job of breaking away from the Inquisition/Salem witch-trial mentality which was part of the culture at the time. For a while the culture was ugly and horrific; burning people alive... monks flogging themselves... using the religion to keep the peasants in their place. But the culture, relatively quickly, progressed past the ugliness. I'm not saying Christianity caused the uplifting, but the point is that the very barbaric culture was able to move past it. Why? Why not these Muslim-majority countries in the hundreds of years Islam (a "perfect way of life") has been there to try to temper the culture?

For some reason, the culture hasn't been holding people back in England or America from granting peopel civil rights, refraining from murdering anyone different from them or whipping people in the streets for clothing taboos or killing family members to preserve family honor.

What's up with that? Why is the culture so dangerous in some Islamic countries and why hasn't Islam (if it's a perfect way of life) tempered the culture? Why is the culture in other countries, which used to be just as barbaric, now much more civil while Muslim countries still get defended because "it's their culture's fault?" Why hasn't their culture been uplifted in all this time, then?

Now this is my opinion as a biased(Muslim) observer...
Pre Islamic culture was barbaric by any standards. Muhammed pbuh revealved a better way of life. It has always struck me that Allah would reveal this message to people with such strong, unyeilding, horrific cultural norms. He instituted daily hygiene to people living in the desert! I believe it is a sign to mankind; If they can do it, anyone can.
But time has taken it's toll and although the majority of Muslims don't live in the Middle east and do not share the innovated ideas ascribed to Islam, those at the heart of it's origin are being herded into corruption. It is culture, because it is not the message.
Christianity ( not Christians as individuals) used barbaric tactics in the past, but it seems to have moved away from that. Because Christianity is more "peaceful" than Islam? No, because the have a more effecient means of control, govenrment and financial and military. They still use peoples love of God to manipulate. That is just how it goes. People in power always resort to using religion because it is easy and gets people to rally and feel righteous even when they are doing wrong.
I am an independant thinker and have not and don't intend to let anyone tell me what God wants me to do. I can read for myself and I believe God instructs us to reflect on what He has given us in scripture and the natural world. I have greater repsect for some one who does not believe, based on their own independent thought , than someone who kills or supports obvious injustice because they let some one else tell them God said so.

 

[Wombat]

Now this is my opinion as a biased(Muslim) observer...
Pre Islamic culture was barbaric by any standards. Muhammed pbuh revealved a better way of life. It has always struck me that Allah would reveal this message to people with such strong, unyeilding, horrific cultural norms. He instituted daily hygiene to people living in the desert! I believe it is a sign to mankind; If they can do it, anyone can.
But time has taken it's toll and although the majority of Muslims don't live in the Middle east and do not share the innovated ideas ascribed to Islam, those at the heart of it's origin are being herded into corruption. It is culture, because it is not the message.
Christianity ( not Christians as individuals) used barbaric tactics in the past, but it seems to have moved away from that. Because Christianity is more "peaceful" than Islam? No, because the have a more effecient means of control, govenrment and financial and military. They still use peoples love of God to manipulate. That is just how it goes. People in power always resort to using religion because it is easy and gets people to rally and feel righteous even when they are doing wrong.
I am an independant thinker and have not and don't intend to let anyone tell me what God wants me to do. I can read for myself and I believe God instructs us to reflect on what He has given us in scripture and the natural world. I have greater repsect for some one who does not believe, based on their own independent thought , than someone who kills or supports obvious injustice because they let some one else tell them God said so.

From a biased (non Muslim) observer:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

Just wanted to throw into the mix...
We in the West remind me of smug, comfortable, well educated and well off metropolitan descendents of dirt poor farming stock who slaved and sacrificed to get us where we are today...and we neither know nor care that we stand on the shoulders of their efforts.

Enjoying Democracy? Thank Islam/Moslems for preserving almost everything we know about our Western/Greek democratic origins and philosophical heritage.

Been to University or enjoy the fruits thereof? Thank Islam/Moslems for providing the material (above) that necessitated the establishment of the first Universities.
It took a hundred years to translate the bulk of what we inherited and we are still working on it.

Had a nice Renaissance? Enjoying melodic music? Eating 'courses' with table manners? Hows your Math, Medicine and Astronomy going?
Ever pause to say thanks to the bloke called 'Al' who gave you Algebra?
Ever paused to consider what you couldn't do and wouldn't have without it?

Islam (with or without God) is a vital aspect of Human Herritage and Human Family achievement....failing to recognise that diminishes us all.

 

[McBell]

From a biased (non Muslim) observer:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

Just wanted to throw into the mix...
We in the West remind me of smug, comfortable, well educated and well off metropolitan descendents of dirt poor farming stock who slaved and sacrificed to get us where we are today...and we neither know nor care that we stand on the shoulders of their efforts.

Enjoying Democracy? Thank Islam/Moslems for preserving almost everything we know about our Western/Greek democratic origins and philosophical heritage.

Been to University or enjoy the fruits thereof? Thank Islam/Moslems for providing the material (above) that necessitated the establishment of the first Universities.
It took a hundred years to translate the bulk of what we inherited and we are still working on it.

Had a nice Renaissance? Enjoying melodic music? Eating 'courses' with table manners? Hows your Math, Medicine and Astronomy going?
Ever pause to say thanks to the bloke called 'Al' who gave you Algebra?
Ever paused to consider what you couldn't do and wouldn't have without it?

Islam (with or without God) is a vital aspect of Human Herritage and Human Family achievement....failing to recognise that diminishes us all.

Um...
What does this have to do with the thread topic?

 

[Wombat]

Um...
What does this have to do with the thread topic?

It arose upthread in the natural flow of conversation-

“Just out of curiosity, Autodidact, would you say that a society where people are living in fear, injustice is being meted out to them and there is no state of war, as a peaceful society?”

Response- “You mean like in today's Muslim countries?”

My post (and that of TJ73) relates and responds to those themes allready introduced- contemporary cultures/countries and the nature of "peaceful society”.

 

[McBell]

It arose upthread in the natural flow of conversation-

“Just out of curiosity, Autodidact, would you say that a society where people are living in fear, injustice is being meted out to them and there is no state of war, as a peaceful society?”

Response- “You mean like in today's Muslim countries?”

My post (and that of TJ73) relates and responds to those themes allready introduced- contemporary cultures/countries and the nature of "peaceful society”.

Ah.
Now I understand.

Thank you for just flat out answering the question.
I appreciate it.

 

[Pegg]

has 'peaceful' been defined yet?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Senedjem,

Was Muhammad Peaceful?

Sorry never met him or seeing his photograph or lived anywhere near him to make any guess or judgement.
As am not qualified elect not to participate in the poll.

Love & rgds.

 

[Blackheart]

Now this is my opinion as a biased(Muslim) observer...
Pre Islamic culture was barbaric by any standards. Muhammed pbuh revealved a better way of life. It has always struck me that Allah would reveal this message to people with such strong, unyeilding, horrific cultural norms. He instituted daily hygiene to people living in the desert! I believe it is a sign to mankind; If they can do it, anyone can.
But time has taken it's toll and although the majority of Muslims don't live in the Middle east and do not share the innovated ideas ascribed to Islam, those at the heart of it's origin are being herded into corruption. It is culture, because it is not the message.
Christianity ( not Christians as individuals) used barbaric tactics in the past, but it seems to have moved away from that. Because Christianity is more "peaceful" than Islam? No, because the have a more effecient means of control, govenrment and financial and military. They still use peoples love of God to manipulate. That is just how it goes. People in power always resort to using religion because it is easy and gets people to rally and feel righteous even when they are doing wrong.
I am an independant thinker and have not and don't intend to let anyone tell me what God wants me to do. I can read for myself and I believe God instructs us to reflect on what He has given us in scripture and the natural world. I have greater repsect for some one who does not believe, based on their own independent thought , than someone who kills or supports obvious injustice because they let some one else tell them God said so.

Very well said!