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US refuses extradition in fatal crash, prompting anger in UK

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Stevicus, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    U.S. Refuses Extradition in Fatal Crash, Prompting Anger in U.K.

    The State Department refused the extradition request saying that it "would render the invocation of diplomatic immunity a practical nullity and would set an extraordinarily troubling precedent."

    The family of the teenager who was killed even met with Trump, but apparently, it didn't help.

    Our ambassador to the UK is named Woody Johnson?

    I admit that I have somewhat mixed views about diplomatic immunity. I think it should still be in place, at least inasmuch as countries agree to keep each other's diplomats safe from unwarranted prosecution and the like. But if a diplomat really does do something wrong - and even their own government agrees they did something wrong - shouldn't they still be prosecuted for it, even if only in a US court?

    I can see the need to maintain diplomatic immunity, but I don't think that should give those who have it license to just act recklessly or do whatever they want.
     
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  2. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It deals with two Common law juridic systems where criminal law has developed very differently from one another.

    In Civil law systems... penal law underlines two elements of responsibility : Culpa (that is negligence, carelessness) and Dolus (that is willgness, intention).
    And there are several shades which are between the two...like the Frank Formula, for example.
     
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  3. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    If, as likely, she is religious, I'm sure this will haunt her for the rest of her life. I'm sure most of us know what is the right thing to do.
     
    #3 Mock Turtle, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  4. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Another of our new best friends treats us like dirt.

    Isn't brexit great
     
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  5. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    What I don't understand is why she ran away?
    It was a tragic accident, wasn't it? She forgot she was in the UK and drove on the wrong side of the road.
    If she'd stayed put, apologised profusely, she'd maybe have been given a few points on her licence.
    Unless there's something I'm missing? Had she been drinking?
     
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  6. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    Yep, we even have dashcam videos of her clearly driving down the wrong side of the road.

    We should ban all US diplomats from driving in the UK until this is resolved
     
  7. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Well, if the British feel like they're being screwed, I guess it's kind of fitting that our ambassador is named Woody Johnson.
     
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  8. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    I find it pretty odd that the State Department find this precedent more troubling than the precedent that the family of US Diplomats can break foreign laws and kill foreign citizens before fleeing the country despite the requests of that country's authorities to remain for the investigation and never face justice for committing manslaughter through negligence.

    But, hey, what's one British teenager's life worth compared to the wife of an American diplomat? Clearly not much.
     
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  9. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    She has young children I think and perhaps suspected that she might be imprisoned such that they would be missing her for some time.
     
  10. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    That is absolute bull****! One of the key elements of diplomatic immunity is that in the event of someone actually having committed a crime, their government can (and should) wave the immunity. If that doesn’t happen in such a clear-cut case as this one, it sets the “extraordinarily troubling precedent” of it not happening in any case. If the situation was reversed, I very much doubt the US government (and certainly not the US President) would accept it.

    I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories but there seems to be lots of secrecy around her husband and exactly what his job was in the UK. I can’t help feeling that the US authorities don’t want her case to go to open court in the UK because they fear it could bring something to attention that they don’t want to go public. Everything from them leaving in the first place through to the direct efforts by the administration to try to make the whole thing go away quietly just feels wrong.

    I doubt she could be criminally prosecuted in the US due to jurisdiction issues. She could well be sued by the victims family, though I don’t think that’s their preferred approach and given the above, I wouldn’t be surprised to see efforts in that direction subtly blocked by the US authorities one way or another.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    No that peole are dying but in NYC those with the UN cause all sorts of havoc
    and get away with it

    YOUR HOME;Diplomats And Their Immunity
     
  12. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Feeble excuse, she has a husband, and we don't lock people up for RTAs unless it is drunk driving.
     
  13. Darkforbid

    Darkforbid Well-Known Member

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    "In England and Wales and Scotland, a person guilty of dangerous driving is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years, or to a fine, or to both, or on summary conviction, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months"
     
  14. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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  15. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    Proving dangerous driving for an American who drove on the wrong side of the road would take some doing. I've done it in France, I was lucky, I hit nothing.
     
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  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Compassion, understanding, and tolerance.
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    As quoted above, the possibility is there but usually not enacted, so perhaps she just panicked.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Why should Trump keep us having the Brits as friends when he puts so much trust in the Soviets under former KGB head Comrade Putin-- er, I mean the Russians.
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Well said..
     
  19. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Now That I remember
    ..Mr Palfreeman...Trinity College teacher told us students once...that his wife used to drive him..because he really hated to drive our cars...he was not used to it...
    :p
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Trump has alienated all our European allies. I don't think its deliberate. .. I think he's simply stupid.
     
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