US refuses extradition in fatal crash, prompting anger in UK

[Stevicus]

U.S. Refuses Extradition in Fatal Crash, Prompting Anger in U.K.

LONDON — The United States has formally turned down Britain’s extradition request for an American woman who was involved in a car accident that killed a teenager last year, a decision that the British government called “a denial of justice.”

The police have said that the woman, Anne Sacoolas, was driving a car on the wrong side of the road in August when it collided with a motorcycle ridden by Harry Dunn, 19. She fled Britain shortly afterward.

At the time of the accident, which occurred in Brackley, a town about 60 miles northwest of London, Ms. Sacoolas’s husband was working for the United States government at a British military base, and American officials assert that she had diplomatic immunity, shielding her from prosecution. But in December, British prosecutors charged her with causing death by dangerous driving.

The State Department refused the extradition request saying that it "would render the invocation of diplomatic immunity a practical nullity and would set an extraordinarily troubling precedent."

The family of the teenager who was killed even met with Trump, but apparently, it didn't help.

“The reality is that this administration, which we say is behaving lawlessly and taking a wrecking ball to one of the greatest alliances in the world, they won’t be around forever whereas that extradition request will be,” Mr. Seiger told BBC Radio 4.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said earlier this week that the chances that the United States would respond favorably to the request were very low. Andrea Leadsom, the British lawmaker in whose district Mr. Dunn’s parents live, is scheduled to meet with the United States ambassador, Woody Johnson, in London on Thursday, according to the BBC.

Our ambassador to the UK is named Woody Johnson?

I admit that I have somewhat mixed views about diplomatic immunity. I think it should still be in place, at least inasmuch as countries agree to keep each other's diplomats safe from unwarranted prosecution and the like. But if a diplomat really does do something wrong - and even their own government agrees they did something wrong - shouldn't they still be prosecuted for it, even if only in a US court?

I can see the need to maintain diplomatic immunity, but I don't think that should give those who have it license to just act recklessly or do whatever they want.

 

[Estro Felino]

It deals with two Common law juridic systems where criminal law has developed very differently from one another.

In Civil law systems... penal law underlines two elements of responsibility : Culpa (that is negligence, carelessness) and Dolus (that is willgness, intention).
And there are several shades which are between the two...like the Frank Formula, for example.

 

[Mock Turtle]

If, as likely, she is religious, I'm sure this will haunt her for the rest of her life. I'm sure most of us know what is the right thing to do.

 

[Altfish]

Another of our new best friends treats us like dirt.

Isn't brexit great

 

[Altfish]

If, as likely, she is religious, I'm sure this will haunt her for the rest of her life. I'm sure most of know what is the right thing to do.

What I don't understand is why she ran away?
It was a tragic accident, wasn't it? She forgot she was in the UK and drove on the wrong side of the road.
If she'd stayed put, apologised profusely, she'd maybe have been given a few points on her licence.
Unless there's something I'm missing? Had she been drinking?

 

[Darkforbid]

Another of our new best friends treats us like dirt.

Isn't brexit great

Yep, we even have dashcam videos of her clearly driving down the wrong side of the road.

We should ban all US diplomats from driving in the UK until this is resolved

 

[Stevicus]

Another of our new best friends treats us like dirt.

Isn't brexit great

Well, if the British feel like they're being screwed, I guess it's kind of fitting that our ambassador is named Woody Johnson.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The State Department refused the extradition request saying that it "would render the invocation of diplomatic immunity a practical nullity and would set an extraordinarily troubling precedent."

I find it pretty odd that the State Department find this precedent more troubling than the precedent that the family of US Diplomats can break foreign laws and kill foreign citizens before fleeing the country despite the requests of that country's authorities to remain for the investigation and never face justice for committing manslaughter through negligence.

But, hey, what's one British teenager's life worth compared to the wife of an American diplomat? Clearly not much.

 

[Mock Turtle]

What I don't understand is why she ran away?
It was a tragic accident, wasn't it? She forgot she was in the UK and drove on the wrong side of the road.
If she'd stayed put, apologised profusely, she'd maybe have been given a few points on her licence.
Unless there's something I'm missing? Had she been drinking?

She has young children I think and perhaps suspected that she might be imprisoned such that they would be missing her for some time.

 

[HonestJoe]

The State Department refused the extradition request saying that it "would render the invocation of diplomatic immunity a practical nullity and would set an extraordinarily troubling precedent."

That is absolute bull****! One of the key elements of diplomatic immunity is that in the event of someone actually having committed a crime, their government can (and should) wave the immunity. If that doesn’t happen in such a clear-cut case as this one, it sets the “extraordinarily troubling precedent” of it not happening in any case. If the situation was reversed, I very much doubt the US government (and certainly not the US President) would accept it.

I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories but there seems to be lots of secrecy around her husband and exactly what his job was in the UK. I can’t help feeling that the US authorities don’t want her case to go to open court in the UK because they fear it could bring something to attention that they don’t want to go public. Everything from them leaving in the first place through to the direct efforts by the administration to try to make the whole thing go away quietly just feels wrong.

But if a diplomat really does do something wrong - and even their own government agrees they did something wrong - shouldn't they still be prosecuted for it, even if only in a US court?

I doubt she could be criminally prosecuted in the US due to jurisdiction issues. She could well be sued by the victims family, though I don’t think that’s their preferred approach and given the above, I wouldn’t be surprised to see efforts in that direction subtly blocked by the US authorities one way or another.

 

[Audie]

Well, if the British feel like they're being screwed, I guess it's kind of fitting that our ambassador is named Woody Johnson.

No that peole are dying but in NYC those with the UN cause all sorts of havoc
and get away with it

YOUR HOME;Diplomats And Their Immunity

 

[Altfish]

She has young children I think and perhaps suspected that she might be imprisoned such that they would be missing her for some time.

Feeble excuse, she has a husband, and we don't lock people up for RTAs unless it is drunk driving.

 

[Darkforbid]

Feeble excuse, she has a husband, and we don't lock people up for RTAs unless it is drunk driving.

"In England and Wales and Scotland, a person guilty of dangerous driving is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years, or to a fine, or to both, or on summary conviction, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months"

 

[We Never Know]

U.S. Refuses Extradition in Fatal Crash, Prompting Anger in U.K.



The State Department refused the extradition request saying that it "would render the invocation of diplomatic immunity a practical nullity and would set an extraordinarily troubling precedent."

The family of the teenager who was killed even met with Trump, but apparently, it didn't help.





Our ambassador to the UK is named Woody Johnson?

I admit that I have somewhat mixed views about diplomatic immunity. I think it should still be in place, at least inasmuch as countries agree to keep each other's diplomats safe from unwarranted prosecution and the like. But if a diplomat really does do something wrong - and even their own government agrees they did something wrong - shouldn't they still be prosecuted for it, even if only in a US court?

I can see the need to maintain diplomatic immunity, but I don't think that should give those who have it license to just act recklessly or do whatever they want.

 

[Altfish]

"In England and Wales and Scotland, a person guilty of dangerous driving is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years, or to a fine, or to both, or on summary conviction, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months"

Proving dangerous driving for an American who drove on the wrong side of the road would take some doing. I've done it in France, I was lucky, I hit nothing.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Feeble excuse, she has a husband, and we don't lock people up for RTAs unless it is drunk driving.

As quoted above, the possibility is there but usually not enacted, so perhaps she just panicked.

 

[metis]

Why should Trump keep us having the Brits as friends when he puts so much trust in the Soviets under former KGB head Comrade Putin-- er, I mean the Russians.

 

[sooda]

What I don't understand is why she ran away?
It was a tragic accident, wasn't it? She forgot she was in the UK and drove on the wrong side of the road.
If she'd stayed put, apologised profusely, she'd maybe have been given a few points on her licence.
Unless there's something I'm missing? Had she been drinking?

Well said..

 

[Estro Felino]

Now That I remember
..Mr Palfreeman...Trinity College teacher told us students once...that his wife used to drive him..because he really hated to drive our cars...he was not used to it...

 

[sooda]

Why should Trump keep us having the Brits as friends when he puts so much trust in the Soviets under former KGB head Comrade Putin-- er, I mean the Russians.

Trump has alienated all our European allies. I don't think its deliberate. .. I think he's simply stupid.