Was that seriously intended as analogous to 1948?
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what about the last 70+ years of illegal occupation?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
What religion was Palestine before Israel?
It is part of the broader area known as the Levant, which has been a crossroads of various civilizations throughout history. Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem.
It is part of the broader area known as the Levant, which has been a crossroads of various civilizations throughout history. Before 1948, Palestine was home to a diverse population of Arabs, Jews, and Christians, as all groups had religious ties to the area, especially the city of Jerusalem.
Laniakea
Not of this world
In your opinion, perhaps.
I choose to go by reality.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Most the world see Israel's decades of encroachment and occupation in Gaza and West Bank as illegal.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
48 was a lot of outsiders deciding things, although it was a Zionist movement that paved the way for that and ending Palestine to create Israel.
In the 60s is when Israel started doing it on its own. Notice how different the maps look?
Laniakea
Not of this world
And yet, the United Nations recognized Israel as a nation in 1948.
Do you care what the rest of the nations think?
OK. Welcome to history. Geopolitical entities are often the after effect of wars and outsiders deciding things.
The Zionist movement was one of many cohorts that played a substantive role.
Palestine was the designation of a region having an exceedingly complex and sometimes tumultuous history. Much the same can be said for Syria and Jordan.
Yes. Have you ever visited the region?
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And a sidenote, even though at that time the Palestinians had a good chunk of present day Israel then it was the other Arab nations that would not come to an agreement and allow for a self governing Palestinian state. The various different Arab countries may have had their own designs when it came to those lands.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
But what happened in 48 and many times after that? Who is encouraging and funding Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, ...? If the boundaries were to miraculously return back to the 48 boundaries, do you really think Iran and its proxies would stop and accept Israel?48 was a lot of outsiders deciding things, although it was a Zionist movement that paved the way for that and ending Palestine to create Israel.
In the 60s is when Israel started doing it on its own. Notice how different the maps look?
Let's see ...
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. [source]
The Middle East raises a plethora of questions. Few lend themselves to easy answers.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
You didn't answer the question.
Yes, Israel was getting help from multiple sources to help those in Gaza, especially going through Qatar. Unfortunately, that strategy didn't work out well as we've painfully seen, which was a fault of Israeli intelligence on more than one front.
Iran is not only pushing and financing Hamas but also numerous other groups in that region, and as odd as it may seem to some, to the Iranians this is literally a "holy war" based on their firm belief in the Hadith mandate that once an area is under Islamic controlled, it must always remain as such.
If Hamas is not eliminated, then this cycle of violence will just keep happening, and this is not speculation-- it's reality.
WOW.
Do you actually believe that?
Will you next be suggesting that iran must be taken out to stop the 'holy war'?
What i find is the sunni have mecca and the shia have al aqsa (jerusalem,) and that is the problem. The al aqsa is under siege and a certain group want to take down the UNESCO heritage site to build a temple.
The ayatollah levied the red line in the early 80's and now it is written all over the place that it is HAMAS' red line.
HAMAS is a small group that began as a resistance, now identified as a terrorist org. They are not a country, nor a religious movement.
HAMAS are a bunch of ticked off people, that have watched the apartheid and illegal occupation for too long. I will bet most are fatherless and had their parents killed by Israelis and grew up with a hate.
Imagine how many more palestinians will be fatherless after the last few months. The hate will have grown and there will be a new name/label created and the cycle will get worse before it gets better.
Until israel ends both the illegal occupation and pursuit of the mount, the violence will continue. Only israel can end the problem by controlling the fringe to stop.
If any want to see for themselves, the focal problem.... just look up al aqsa violence and see the history surrounding that location and how even the 10/7 attack was based on violence at the al aqsa by israeli settlers (the fringe)
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
That is delusional thinking. Israel was attacked the very moment of its founding in 1948 after the UN partitioned British Mandate Palestine in 1947. That said, I do not justify everything Israel has done since then.
If Israel's existence is the core problem, take it up with the UN.
The delusion is ignoring Israel's brutally attacking
Muslims ever since its founding. Then Israel
complains that they retaliate. The core problem
is Israel's vicious bigotry towards Muslims.
It justifies apartheid, murder, theft, collective
punishment, genocide, prison without trials,
& war crimes. Israel has both severe religious
& cultural problems it must overcome if ever
peace is to reign.
Yes the british did capitulate to the terrorists of the mandate (irgun)
"""On 31 March 1947, Irgun set light to the oil refinery at Haifa, starting a fire which blazed for three weeks. In May, it attacked the prison at Acre, freeing a large number of inmates. On 29 July, in retaliation for the execution of three of their members, LHI kidnapped and hanged two British Army sergeants."""
No rational mind could.
I do not see Israel existing as the problem.
It's the requirement for that mount and the constant attacks by the settlers (terrorists) upon that location and the palestinians in the west bank.
""How many Palestinians were killed in the West Bank in 2023?
Since the start of 2023, at least 483 Palestinians have been killed and more than 12,769 injured by Israeli forces and settlers in the occupied West Bank."""
That's before 10/7.
"""JERUSALEM, Sunday, September 3, 2023 (WAFA) – Scores of Jewish extremists today stormed the Muslim holy place, Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem's Old City, under heavy protection from the Israeli police"""""
All before 10/7.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
So, do you believe that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran will be content with a two-state solution?
Not sure, but the UN (majority on earth represented) did and still do want to try.
Genocide is not an option and the idea of removing palestinians out of the region is about as stupid as suggesting a god gave the land to israel.
Laniakea
Not of this world
The UN's own people took part in the Oct. 7th attack. Their credibility as being fair-minded on the topic is gone.
U.N. workers played a direct role in Oct. 7 Hamas attack, Israeli intelligence says
Israeli intelligence dossiers accuse the workers of actions ranging from kidnapping Israelis to supplying logistical support for Hamas' terrorist attack.
www.nbcnews.com