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Featured Ultimate questions of existence can never be answered?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by osgart, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    The beginning of existence, if such a thing is or is not so.

    Why we are here.

    Is life intelligently caused.

    The existence of personal individual beings of heart, mind, will.

    The finality of death.

    The evidence on free will vs. Determinism.

    Moral authority.

    The existence of time or not.

    Anything immaterial is totally unproveable or disproveable.

    Anything that i have missed.
     
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  2. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Answered by whom? How? These questions have answers some from religion & spirituality and some from science.
     
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  3. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    There is a lot of answers out there but are any absolutely correct 100% so. And so that everyone should know.
     
  4. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Is this supposed to be a haiku or something?

    .
     
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  5. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    No, not really.

    Since everyone is an expert here on rf, i thought they might show me the error of my ways in thinking that ultimate questions are ultimately unanswerable.

    Perhaps a faith based answer or an objective evidence answer will suffice.
     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    This is why we need faith. God wants a certain kind of individual as a citizen of his kingdom, so rightly he 'interviews' them by observing their personality, demeanor, conduct, and level of spirituality. Just like the authorities of any nation might vet applications for citizenship of their nation, God does no less. Anyone with undesirable traits will be denied entry. Can we blame him for looking for the right kind of citizens?

    Jesus said something interesting with regard to this....."No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him..." (John 6:44) IOW, no one can come to the son without an invitation from the Father. God will reveal his truth to those in whom he sees the necessary qualities that he is looking for. Then they will be able to answer all those questions with confidence.
     
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  7. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Those qualities would perhaps be honesty, a broken contrite heart, diligence, etc.

    What comes first faith or those qualities?

    Why is a non believer a non believer? Dishonesty perhaps, blind hearted.
     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    The beginning of existence, if such a thing is or is not so.: Science does not know this.
    Why we are here?: Chance, probability.
    Is life intelligently caused?: No.
    The existence of personal individual beings of heart, mind, will.: That is evolution.
    The finality of death.: Final in human sphere. By that I mean the constituents of the body are always recycled.
    The evidence on free will vs. Determinism.: None of the two is correct. It is chance, probability.
    Moral authority.: Society.
    The existence of time or not.: Science is working on that.
    Anything immaterial is totally unproveable or disproveable.: Material and non-material are phases, like energy and matter.
    Anything that i have missed.: If you feel that you have missed something, just put in one more post. :D
     
    #8 Aupmanyav, Oct 15, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  9. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    There are many answers, but no proof, for certainty. So we can choose what we believe in relation to these kinds of questions. And in our choosing, we define ourselves. And in our living according to our chosen "truths", we become the selves that we've defined. Through the mystery, we are able to create ourselves.

    Perhaps our unknowing is our greatest gift.
     
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  10. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    When will Trump stop lying
    When will Brexit get sorted
    When will the left get their act together
     
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  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    He has only ever asked humans for their willing obedience. It takes humility to obey God when everything in you wants to go the other way. (this is what sin does) Think of all the ways people are tempted and then think of what God wants us to do in those circumstances?
    He looks for those who will obey even against their will....because they know God says it is the right thing to do.

    Imagine in the garden of Eden, the serpent sets the woman up to fall for his lies and she notices how good that fruit looks. She has tried all the others and this one might even be more tasty than what she has already eaten and it comes with benefits that none of the others have......BUT then she says to him....."NO! God said we are not to touch that tree, it belongs to Him and it would be stealing to take anything without his permission. He has already given us so much, why would we take what is not ours?"

    Imagine what would have happened if she had done that? Imagine the ramifications that would never have taken place....

    That is what God looks for......willing obedience, from an appreciative heart.

    God is a reader of hearts, so he has his message preached in all the earth so that people can come to know him and to see why the earth is in such a mess....and he discerns if that person really wants the solution he is offering? If he sees a positive response, probably because that person already has those qualities, then he will draw that one to his truth. He doesn't offer it to everyone, because not everyone wants to do what he tells them to do....they are intent on doing what they want to do. He is not interested in those people and he has had his fill of rebels. He is looking for those with trusting, child-like qualities, who don't want to set the world on fire, but are content to warm themselves by Jehovah's fire, listening to Jesus teaching them how to live a productive life by putting God and others first.

    Yes, its all about the heart. The apostle Paul probably summed it up best.....

    "But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

    If you have no love for the truth because it requires something from you, then God will leave you in a deluded state and you won't get anything from him. If people want to find fault with God and the things the Bible teaches, he will let them. If they take pleasure in what he condemns, then he will let them do that too....but it won't lead them anywhere.

    The "broad road" to death requires nothing from anyone, that's why its easy.....the cramped and narrow road is difficult because it does require something from us....our faith, our loyalty and our love for the truth, even if its hard going. It isn't God who makes the road cramped...it is God's enemy continually planting booby traps or temptations in our path. His methods haven't changed since day one....he knows human nature better than we do, and he knows our weaknesses too. The road is narrow because there there are rules...not difficult ones but we recognize that free will is not the freedom to do whatever you please. There are restrictions, but they are for our good.

    That is how I see things.
     
    #11 Deeje, Oct 15, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    When the "Kingdom comes and God's will is done on earth as it is in heaven".....everything will be sorted....will you be there to enjoy it?
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Does there need to be a reason?

    Seems unlikely given the evidence.

    One thing is sure, every living thing is unique


    Is it, i know my constituent molecules and atoms may go into creating a new life (we are all made of dead people), possibly on the far distant future, a new sun to shine on a new planet and help create life.

    Is not the will of the individuals subconscious mind not also free will?


    Morality is a human (and some (possible all) other mammals) trait, no authority required.

    Time... hours, minutes etc... are a man made concept used to measure entropy. Spacetime exists as a function of 3 dimensional space and time

    ;
    Does the immaterial exist?
     
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  14. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    I have my own answers

    Is it an ultimate question though. If there's no beginning, it's a waste of time.

    For no particular reason.

    If intelligent life was caused, was there an intelligent life causing it? Because if it was, then intelligent life pre-existed intelligent life...and we're back to square 1.

    Is that a question or just a reality.

    For the things that die, it's quite irreversible at least.

    A question that simplifies to the extremes. Both are true.

    Utilitarian.

    Just as a concept of change.

    By definition unproveable. Unless "immaterial" can somehow have effect on material where we could see the effect, potentially.
     
  15. Looncall

    Looncall Well-Known Member

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    Re non believer: how about a determination to not be conned by scoundrels?
     
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  16. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    I sincerely hope I'm not in Heaven!!
     
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  17. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    Quite difficult in practice. It's easier to just stick with what you know than to look for dishonesty in others, because you might get some innocents messed up with the scoundrels and some scoundrels might get past you.
     
  18. Looncall

    Looncall Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes, for sure. However, it is easier when the scoundrels get organized as, for example, the various outfits that are pushing creationism.
     
  19. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    We don't know which unanswered questions if any will never be answered. There may or might not be eternally unanswerable questions

    It's probably more helpful to think not so much in terms of the ultimate truth of ideas, but rather their utility. Ideas that can be reliably used to predict and at times control outcomes are useful ideas, and can be called facts, the collection of which can be called knowledge. Newton's work was used to take man to the moon and back even though as Einstein showed us, it was not "absolutely correct 100%." That needn't concern us or distract us.

    No, honesty and clear-headedness.

    An unbeliever is generally a skeptic, meaning that he needs a sound reason to believe anything before believing it.

    Skepticism is one of the greatest ideas man has ever conceived - up there with things like empiricism and justice. It's been an incredibly useful idea, forcing us to reconsider received wisdom and toss out the ideas that just don't work or can be shown to be wrong. With that in mind, alchemy became chemistry and astrology became astronomy. Faith based systems of thought became evidence based ones, and went from being useless to useful. That's a pretty strong endorsement of skepticism.

    Aren't you happy that a few centuries ago, skeptics rejected the received biblical wisdom that kings were divinely appointed, and that failing to submit to their authority was rebellion against God and therefore a damnable offense? I hope you wouldn't call America's founders dishonest or blind-hearted for not believing the following:
    • "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."- Romans 13:1-2
    There is no reason to believe that. If you do, you are at risk of supporting despots. If you believed such a thing and you lived during the Revolutionary War, you would be obligated to fight for the king, right? The king is God's agent on earth.

    Skepticism was the only path to tunneling out and creating an enlightened form of government - yet another great achievement born of skepticism, and another strong endorsement of the principle and its practice.

    We can see the benefit of questioning and empirically testing all received wisdom, keeping only that which proves useful. We've discussed what happens when one applies skepticism to matters of physical reality and daily life / government. We get science and the modern liberal democratic state with limited government and guaranteed individual rights. Life becomes better.

    If one applies skepticism to god claims, one is an unbeliever. That's not an assertion that gods don't exist - just that we have insufficient evidence that they do, and that therefore one should not believe any god claims unless that changes. I'd call that a more honest position, not a dishonest one.
     
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  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Not entirely correct. We are made up of food (veg. and non-veg), minerals (salt, etc.), air that we breathe and water we drink.
    How would you take energy? Material or immaterial?
     
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