Ultimate questions of existence can never be answered?

[Nous]

Physical to me is energy, and matter.

Of course, energy is a quantity.

Are you saying that wave functions don't exist?

Do you claim that virtual particles are matter or energy, or don't exist?

You don't know of any scientific study that has concluded what doesn't exist, do you?

 

[osgart]

Of course, energy is a quantity.

Are you saying that wave functions don't exist?

Do you claim that virtual particles are matter or energy, or don't exist?

You don't know of any scientific study that has concluded what doesn't exist, do you?

All i am saying is that you can not prove or disprove non physical realities.

No i do not know of such conclusions.

 

[osgart]

Of course, energy is a quantity.

Are you saying that wave functions don't exist?

Do you claim that virtual particles are matter or energy, or don't exist?

You don't know of any scientific study that has concluded what doesn't exist, do you?

A wave function would be a description of a literal physical happening.

Virtual particles exist in a literal physical sense and emerge from a background field is all i know about that.

 

[Altfish]

Doesn´t sound like you will be, so your hope will be realized.

Since it doesn't exist, I'm hardly worried.

 

[ChristineM]

Except for those outer-space rockets that man sent far away from earth, everything else on earth is always here.

The moon?

So where was all that stuff 5 billion years ago before earth was formed.

What will happen when our sun goes red giant and blasts everything but solid rock out into space?

 

[BilliardsBall]

The beginning of existence, if such a thing is or is not so.

Why we are here.

Is life intelligently caused.

The existence of personal individual beings of heart, mind, will.

The finality of death.

The evidence on free will vs. Determinism.

Moral authority.

The existence of time or not.

Anything immaterial is totally unproveable or disproveable.

Anything that i have missed.

Why? There are multiple routes to learning truth on many of these things.

Let's start with the existence of time. How long ago did I reply to your post, do you think?

 

[tayla]

Ultimate questions of existence can never be answered?

In my view the only things provable regard the physical realm, via the scientific method. Consciousness and its contents reside in the spiritual realm. Nothing can be known about the structure and function of the spiritual realm. The only thing that can be known about it is what's in it, and these are: everything not in the physical realm, everything non-physical. Things such as ideas, consciousness, memories, love, emotions, and etc.

 

[Nous]

All i am saying is that you can not prove or disprove non physical realities.

What caused your fingers to type those particular words?

 

[Nous]

A wave function would be a description of a literal physical happening.

So quantitative probabilities are "literal, physical happenings".

Virtual particles exist in a literal physical sense and emerge from a background field is all i know about that.

And expectation values are "literal physical".

Can wave functions and virtual particles be detected with an instrument that detects and measures mass or EM waves?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What you have here is a classic example of a proof text. One chosen in isolation to promote a specific desired conclusion.

If you're going to convincingly claim that the words don't mean what they seem to mean because they've been separated from relevant context that changes their apparent meaning, you'll need to produce the missing context that reveals that,

• "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."- Romans 13:1-2

doesn't mean that "there is no authority except that which God has established" and that "whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

I think that the words are pretty clear and don't leave any wiggle room for rebellion against a king or any other head of state. According to scripture, they're all there because God ordained it, and rebelling against an established government, especially against a Christian king, explicitly violates the Christian god's commandment.

Fortunately, even the believers reject that scripture, but they do so with verbal gymnastics, claiming that the words mean something more sensible and more consistent with Enlightenment values than what they say. The unbeliever just calls the idea bad and wrong, feeling no need to offer apologetics to try to sanitize or justify the scripture, but we all agree to ignore what is now an idea that we have outgrown.

[Paul] was speaking here of only one facet of the issue, a peaceful society. There are other facets he explores elsewhere, and the scholarly consensus is that he proposes in total support for a good government, good being defined as just, fair, merciful and reasonable. Governments that do not meet these criteria can be resisted.

I disagree about what Paul was talking about. There was no mention of peace, just of obedience versus rebellion, with the threat of judgment thrown in. That's what Paul was talking about. You injected the peace aspect ad hoc.

Perhaps you can provide the scripture that says God supports man judging when a government deserves to be resisted - one that supports disregarding Romans 13 at times. I don't believe any such scripture exists.

Finally, are you willing to stand before God in violation of the apparent meaning of that scripture and the ideas clearly stated in them? If so, isn't that a bit of a gamble? What would you say to God if He says what I said - that the words were straightforward and meant what they said, and that you were in open rebellion of His will, which could not be stated any more clearly? It's pretty easy to change whatever meanings you don't like here and now, perhaps with the thought that that is what God really wants, but is that acceptable to God? And if not, would you give this argument to God?

 

[viole]

Some of these questions have answers in my conviction.

Moral authority. The cause and effect of beings interacting with other beings and what produces healthy actions vs. detrimental , or destructive actions.

Free will. The freedom to do or think as one pleases. Or the ability to choose one's own character and nature of being. Or the ability to choose otherwise then what is chosen. Or that nothing is restricting the will so that it is free to make its own choices of its own desire and volition.

I chose to have a nature of being able to fly by flipping my arms. But i seem unable to instantiate that will.

Where can I place a complain and get a new free will? The one I have received seems defective on the freedom part.

Is there a free will hotline or something?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Twilight Hue]

The beginning of existence, if such a thing is or is not so.

Why we are here.

Is life intelligently caused.

The existence of personal individual beings of heart, mind, will.

The finality of death.

The evidence on free will vs. Determinism.

Moral authority.

The existence of time or not.

Anything immaterial is totally unproveable or disproveable.

Anything that i have missed.

Even if you had the answers, it would be hopelessly provisional.

How do you have answers in a continuum in a state of flux?

 

[osgart]

I chose to have a nature of being able to fly by flipping my arms. But i seem unable to instantiate that will.

Where can I place a complain and get a new free will? The one I have received seems defective on the freedom part.

Is there a free will hotline or something?

Ciao

- viole

Not at all what i meant. Its nature of intent of being; one's freedom to be and do things of a guilty or innocent nature. If you desire to be bad or good its your choice.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The moon?
So where was all that stuff 5 billion years ago before earth was formed.
What will happen when our sun goes red giant and blasts everything but solid rock out into space?

I had planet Mars in thought when I mentioned except only things man sends out from Earth.

Before Earth was formed, what we now have is due to God's 'power and strength' as per Isaiah 40:26.
God sends forth His energy - Psalms 104:30 - to create the material world.

True, everything on Earth is perishable, perishable if Not for God.
As we change garments to refresh oneself, God will refresh Earth.
So, under conditions as they exist now science tells us the sun will go out....
Since Earth abides forever as per Ecclesiastes 1:4 B, then God has a purpose for the sun.
If need be, God can keep mass in the sun so it does Not blast everything.....

 

[ChristineM]

I had planet Mars in thought when I mentioned except only things man sends out from Earth.

Before Earth was formed, what we now have is due to God's 'power and strength' as per Isaiah 40:26.
God sends forth His energy - Psalms 104:30 - to create the material world.

True, everything on Earth is perishable, perishable if Not for God.
As we change garments to refresh oneself, God will refresh Earth.
So, under conditions as they exist now science tells us the sun will go out....
Since Earth abides forever as per Ecclesiastes 1:4 B, then God has a purpose for the sun.
If need be, God can keep mass in the sun so it does Not blast everything.....

If thats what you teach your kids, i despair for the future of mankind

 

[osgart]

So quantitative probabilities are "literal, physical happenings".



And expectation values are "literal physical".

Can wave functions and virtual particles be detected with an instrument that detects and measures mass or EM waves?

Math to me is a manipulation of reality. Partly abstract concepts, and partly physical description. Quantitative probabilities are not explaining physical cause and effect. Its a device not an explanation.

If it behaves like a wave then it has wave properties. Why cant wave particle duality exist literally and physically.

I dont think anybody understands qm. Its a powerful devisement that they are fortunate to discover.

Particles popping in and out of detectable existence, does not mean they are non physical before they pop into existence.

How can you say what is or is not physical in Qm, until you measure it?

 

[Looncall]

In my view the only things provable regard the physical realm, via the scientific method. Consciousness and its contents reside in the spiritual realm. Nothing can be known about the structure and function of the spiritual realm. The only thing that can be known about it is what's in it, and these are: everything not in the physical realm, everything non-physical. Things such as ideas, consciousness, memories, love, emotions, and etc.

Bah, humbug! All these phenomena you list are processes running in brains. Consider a calculation being done in a computer. Do you claim that is supernatural too?

How come the religious are so blind to the notion of processes? Not everything is a substance.

This is just a routine dishonest attempt to smuggle in gods.

I think it is a popular religious claim that souls exist in an undetectable part of reality. My belief is that the brain can not account for the existence of this realm where life resides. It is only a belief i thought of while watching an explanation of non locality in quantum entanglement. Other things are non detectable, such as dark matter and energy.

To me there must be a vital force that produces being. We can only experience the spirit of our capacities to love, hate, care or be ambivalent, or neutral about experiences. I do not think physics would have the capacity to explain the vital force that produces these capacities.

I do not see how things have to be physical to be causal. The vital force might have substance to it, but it is not of the stuff we can detect by observation, or instrumental detection.

Also neutrinos pass through the body without notice. And i cannot just logically say that natural laws produced such an improbable thing as living life. What can be ruled out, whatever remains, however unlikely , must be possible.

Vitalism? How nineteenth century!

 

[MonkeyFire]

The beginning of existence, if such a thing is or is not so.

Why we are here.

We have always been here, but it was once Heaven a long time ago

The finality of death.

Death is an assumption made with limited knowledge.

The evidence on free will vs. Determinism.

Without the angel of will there was no angel of light (knowledge).

Anything immaterial is totally unproveable or disproveable.

Nirvana creates itself.

 

[osgart]

Bah, humbug! All these phenomena you list are processes running in brains. Consider a calculation being done in a computer. Do you claim that is supernatural too?

How come the religious are so blind to the notion of processes? Not everything is a substance.

This is just a routine dishonest attempt to smuggle in gods.


Vitalism? How nineteenth century!

Snore!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If thats what you teach your kids, i despair for the future of mankind

I find it is science and the churches of Christendom's teachings that teach despair for the future of mankind.
Both science and the so-called churches teach destruction or ruin for Earth.
In the doctor's office today there was an article warning that men need to do something about climate change.
Whereas, the good news in the Bible informs us God will bring to ruin those ruining Earth at Revelation 11:18 B.
The happy climax at Revelation 22:2 lets us know that there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefit of healing. Even enemy death will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.
No one will say, " I am sick...." as per Isaiah 33:24. Earth will become paradisical according to Isaiah 35th chapter.
I see No despair, but a beautiful happy future coming to people of goodwill.