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Time is a myth, time is real, time is unreal, time is....

Discussion in 'The Material World' started by MrMrdevincamus, Dec 5, 2019.

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  1. Time is real (please expand)

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
  2. Time is not real, please expand.

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I put it exactly as is, as it should be, weird for word.
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    I fixed it by adding what you were thinking, but eschewed for brevity's sake.
    As all practical thinking people know, time exists, is useful,
    & becomes a real problem when it's ignored or insufficient.
    Also...
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Nope. I put it exactly as intended.
     
  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
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    You can't fool me.
    I read the thought bubble.
    How else would I've known how to spell "supermetareligiogoofy", eh.
     
  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    You and the bear working in cahoots with the Sontarans.
     
  6. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    None religion here! Fading religiousity!
    If time were not real, then every moment is unchanging, unmoving, and there would be no aging effect. Each moment we count would be nothing but eternal newness of a singular now.
     
  7. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli ~◇~

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    Did time exist before the big bang? before there was space? Or is time just an abstract concept created by the living -whose life is totally dependent on it's growth and eventual death -thus inventing the concept based on us projecting ourselves onto the universe?

    ...It could be that everything is just flying around in space, randomly and / or whatever, and time is just our own paradigm... Based on the fact that we die.
     
    #27 Landon Caeli, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    So you're saying explaining time is a waste of time? :eek:
     
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  9. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    I would like to see if those questions can be determined by astrophysics. But I don't see any reason to think it's not real. I think experiment shows it is emergent from quantum entanglement from what I've read. Something to do with internal vs. external observers and an independent measurement. External to the event no time elapses, but internally time does happen with respect to the photons entanglement.

    Quantum Experiment Shows How Time ‘Emerges’ from Entanglement
     
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  10. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    • The world is a set. The elements of the world are particles. There was once a special word that served as a name for the particles that are the elements of the world. This word was atom. Due to a series of vagaries, this word has become the generic name of a class of entities that are not the elements of the world.
    • The atoms are engaged in an ongoing process that goes by the name of moving through the void. In order to describe this behavior of the atoms, it is necessary to invent two complicated abstract concepts, called space and time.
    • "Space" is an abstract noun which refers to a set. The elements of space are points. The points are some distance each from each. Each such distance may be specified as the product of a nonnegative real number and a unit of distance, such as 3 miles or 4,828.032 meters.
    • "Time" is an abstract noun which refers to another set. The elements of time are instants. The instants are some distance each from each. Each such distance may be specified as the product of a nonnegative real number and a unit of distance, such as .03 days or 2,592 seconds.
     
  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    If time doesn't exist, then what exactly are we wasting? :shrug:
     
  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Time does definitely exist. It is a dimension of our existence. It's just not necessarily the uniform progression from point a to point b we tend to think of it as. Such as, when you look at the night sky, we say we are in the present but we are observing the ancient past. When a movie screen, we never technically do see it in the present, because every thing we take in is a moment in the past. Really, we live in the past with some doses of now.
     
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Time is the relationship between space and motion. Something we experience relative to our position within these.
     
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  14. MrMrdevincamus

    MrMrdevincamus Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter

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    Interesting reply Landon. I agree that an accurate description of time should or could include our lifespan and observing 'nature' i.e. natural processes. Also I think that when you say time is an abstract concept you may be referencing the way our brain interprets reality by the information our four senses sends to it. We need that interpretation of reality (even if its not actually reality according to the universe) to navigate and make sense of our universe. Most scientific/philosophical theories* include entropy when describing why time is different (as in being asymmetrical) compared other symmetrical natural processes such as gravity. I agree with the standard (one universe) hot model of big bang cosmology even though the competing theories are many. So when the big bang banged the cosmological arrow was forced to the forward position to agree with the outward expansion of the universe. (Also, for more information google thermodynamic arrow and the cosmological arrow of time and the 2nd law of thermodynamics).

    I am not sure by what you mean by things appear still, but I am sure you agree that the intuitive time seems to flow or move forward in a linear fashion (aka the arrow of time). Thanks for your reply.
     
  15. MrMrdevincamus

    MrMrdevincamus Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter

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    Hey Revoltingest! :hand:(I couldn't find the waving emoji)
     
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  16. MrMrdevincamus

    MrMrdevincamus Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter

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    It seems that way intuitively, but see no way that such an arrangement can work!
     
  17. MrMrdevincamus

    MrMrdevincamus Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter

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    I believe time as in 'space time' is real, but so called intuitive time is 'false'. Maybe the Einsteinian theory of space a time fabric that's distorted by mass etc. and the related theory of gravity caused by mass etc. distorting that ST fabric may be incomplete or there is a slim possibility it may be wrong! I have a suspicion there is far more to space time than we currently know. I am sure new discoveries await with the coming online of powerful new colliders and other methods of discovery. Even the ether may be real which is a very old idea that is scientists equate the validity of the flat earth theory!

    However, I believe our perception of time given to us by our remarkable brain is a necessary illusion for existence and survival. Gotta' have it! Oh, the very old and discredited idea that space is made of something i.e. or filled with something, called the aether or ether theory. Fast forward to today and the theory of dark matter and dark energy. Who says both of these invisible thing are not surrounding our world and solar system? That would solve many answered problems of astrophysics and physics in general! Think about it!

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories
     
    #37 MrMrdevincamus, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    What you can't see is not especially relevant, though, is it?
     
  19. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Makes sense.
    There are levels of reality. Time is different in each one. What's "real" largely depends on how you're defining real and what level of reality you're talking about.

    The time described by special relativity is not the time of our everyday sensory experience.
    If it were intuitive it wouldn't have taken an Einstein to discover it.

    The arrow of time is intuitive; simultaneity is intuitive. Both are objectively wrong.
    Time dilation/Twin Paradox, seem ridiculous; as does Lorenz contraction/Ladder paradox. Both are objectively real."

    Intuitive commonsense: "The past no longer exists. The future does not yet exist. Only the present is real."
    Einstein: "Balderdash!"
     
  20. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Makes sense.
    There are levels of reality. Time is different in each one. What's "real" largely depends on how you're defining real and what level of reality you're talking about.
    The time described by special relativity is not the time of our everyday sensory experience.
    If it were intuitive it wouldn't have taken an Einstein to discover it.

    The arrow of time is intuitive; simultaneity is intuitive. Both are objectively wrong.
    Time dilation/Twin Paradox seem ridiculous, as does Lorenz contraction/Ladder paradox. Both are objectively real."

    Intuitive commonsense: "The past no longer exists. The future does not yet exist. Only the present is real."
    Einstein
    :"Balderdash!"
    Yet much our current technology, like GPS or chronometry, depends on its working.
     
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