The Truth About God.

[Ceridwen018]

SpiritualSon--

Forgive me here buddy, but what are you talking about????

That last post was really long, really boring, and really irrelevent.

I don't see how that possibly answers any of the questions I've asked at all.

One last note: As far as quoting the bible goes, you can save it. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but to me the bible holds absolutely no merit whatsoever, least of all in the area of evidence, which I assume is how you were bizzarely trying to portray it in your last post.

 

[teapot_tall_and_yummy]

when it comes to truth.... clearly theres no agreement whatsoever. God is truth. Allah is truth. Whatever. Why take the Bible literally? If you were to read a book, you probably would come out with a general idea and feeling about the message of the book. Instead of quoting the damn Bible and saying 'Here, look, God is truth' just live the message you retrieve from the Bible. When everything is taken literally, it clashes horribly. Little specific things turn into huge issues. But if you were to live in the manner that you felt the Bible asked you to, and Muslims lived the gnereal tone of the Quran, etc, you might find a lot of people getting along. There is no one truth, only peoples perceptions of it. 'Truths' clash too much to have one clear winner. Until some all powerful dude literally comes around smacks us all in the head and says yo this is how it goes, people simply are not going to agree.

 

[SpiritualSon]

SpiritualSon--

Forgive me here buddy, but what are you talking about????

That last post was really long, really boring, and really irrelevent.

I don't see how that possibly answers any of the questions I've asked at all.

One last note: As far as quoting the bible goes, you can save it. I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but to me the bible holds absolutely no merit whatsoever, least of all in the area of evidence, which I assume is how you were bizzarely trying to portray it in your last post.

God is Love itself and Wisdom itself, and these two constitute His Divine Essence.

Harry

 

[Ceridwen018]

Yes Harry, you are right, I do not believe in god-- although there was a time when I was very religious. For the sake of this debate, pretend like you're trying to convert me back (if that's not what you genuinely want to do, which would be fine also, hehe)

And on that note, my question: How do you know that god is 'love' and 'wisdom'? More importantly, how do you know he is divine?

 

[SpiritualSon]

Yes, but how do you know that Jesus was the son of god? Because that's what you've been taught? Because you've read the bible? Neither of those seem like good enough sources to me to bet you're whole life on. In fact, the lack of a multitude of sources available is very fishy to me.

The Son of God is the Human Form Jehovah God the Father had assumed in the world.Born of the virgin Mary. The Father is the soul of the Son.The Lord said in the Word,"My Father and I are one.They are one as soul and body of Jesus Christ. I know you are searching for truth.

These three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, are the three essentials of one God, and they make one as soul, body and operation make one in man.

Harry

 

[Runt]

How is that any indication of proof? That's like me saying "Coca Cola is a good thing" and when asked to prove it responding, "I'd like to buy the world a home and furnish it with love, grow apple trees and honey bees, and snow white turtle doves. I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company. It's the real thing, Coke is what the world wants today."

 

[Bastet]

:lol: Ah, Runt, I love your posts! :lol:

 

[Ceridwen018]

Well said Runt, haha!

But seriously: SpiritualSon, you mentioned 'The Word'. I am assuming that that is what you think proves everything, so expand on that a little. Why do you think 'The Word' is legitimate?

 

[Runt]

*smiles and raises hand* I know, I know!

*recites like good little religious kid* "God exists and wrote the Bible, and I know this because the Bible says so!"

 

[SpiritualSon]

God is Infinite because He is Being and Existence in Himself, and because all things in the universe have their being and existence from Him. It has been already shown that God is One,that He is the Itself, that He is the primal Esse of all things, and that all things in the universe that have being, existence, and subsistence, are from Him, and consequently that He is infinite.

That human reason is able from very many things in the created universe to recognize this will be made clear hereafter. But although the human mind is able from all this to acknowledge that the primal Being or primal Esse is infinite, it is nevertheless unable to comprehend what that Being is, and therefore can only define it as the infinite All and the Self-subsistent, and hence as the very and the only substance; and since nothing can be predicated of substance unless it has form, it is the very and only Form. But what does this mean?

It does not make clear what the infinite is; for the human mind itself, even when in the highest degree analytical and exalted, is finite; and its finiteness is inseparable from it; and for this reason the human mind is wholly incapable of seeing the infinity of God as it is in Itself thus of seeing God.Although it can from behind see God obscurely.

As was said to Moses when he prayed to see God:
That he should be placed in a cleft of the rock,and should see His back parts (Exod. 33:20-23).

Harry

 

[SpiritualSon]

God is Infinite because He was before the world was, thus before spaces and times arose. In the natural world there are spaces and times.

In the spiritual world these exist only apparently,and not actually. Time and space were introduced into these worlds for the purpose of distinguishing one thing from another, the great from the small, the many from the few, thus quantity from quantity,and so quality from quality.

Also to enable the bodily senses to distinguish between their objects, and the mental senses between theirs, and thereby to be affected, and to think and choose.

The Infinite became finite so that it may be understood by men. In order for Jehovah the infinite God to redeem us He had to finite.

Harry

 

[painted wolf]

kina' like inca eh?

wa:-do

 

[true blood]

Cer, I said my faith not my religion. In fact I'm very much anti religious.
This really hasn't been a formal debate, at all. Hardly any of these posts.
Debate stimulates and refines communication skills that empower individuals to speak for themselves, to discover and use their own voices. Also most debate because it is also fun. Everyone should ask themselves: What does this proposition mean? What important issues are raised by it? How may it be affirmed or denied? What examples and events are relevant to its discussion? This is a forum about religions and faiths. That's what we debate in this thread. Not bash other's ideas or faiths but rather question them. What does it matter if the propostion is based on assumptions? What is wrong with using quotes? The poster stated his proposition so why does the oppostition need to assume he must assume the same as the oppostions? The oppostion isn't suppose to agree with the propostion thus the debate takes place lol.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

true blood said:

What does it matter if the propostion is based on assumptions? What is wrong with using quotes? The poster stated his proposition so why does the oppostition need to assume he must assume the same as the oppostions? The oppostion isn't suppose to agree with the propostion thus the debate takes place lol.

I completely agree with you, true blood we should not bash other people's beliefs. As part of the debate, I am simply pointing out that
Harry's arguments are based on an assumption. An argument based on an assumption is not a very strong argument. Hence I am debating. 8)

 

[Ceridwen018]

true blood,

I'm sorry I mixed up the words faith and religion. I'll remember that from now on.

What is wrong with using quotes? The poster stated his proposition so why does the oppostition need to assume he must assume the same as the oppostions? The oppostion isn't suppose to agree with the propostion thus the debate takes place lol.

Exactly. The only problem is that it takes two to debate. When simple questions are not answered and opposing posts not commented on, a debate cannot take place.

 

[SpiritualSon]

Mr Spinkles

Harry isn't here to debate or discuss anything - he is here to preach.

What are you here for? To convert them? In this forum it's hard to know who is Catholic or who is Protestants. This topic was started by me and it was meant to give information about the teachings of the New Church. All opinions are welcome. Whether you believe or not is up to you. I have another topic in other religions called New Church (Swedenborg) but none of you want to leave any replies.

The reason you against the teachings of the New Church (Swedenborg) because you may have known people in you church who have been converted. God converts,not me.

A truly good person no mater what religion they have will find the truth, when looking for it. The Lord will lead them to it, because good loves truth,and truth loves good. Evil persons love ideas that are false,even if truth was looking at them in the face.

Another reason is that truly good people are being brainwash with love by their parents, Priests or Pastor, who tell them that what they teach is true,and what everyone teaches is false,when the parents,Priest and Pastor themselves are teaching false ideas themselves. Some of you stay with the same religion because your parents were of the same.

The Catholics look to their Pope for answers,when they should be looking to the Lord, because He is the Word and truth. In heaven the Lord is the High Pope. He is my High Pope here in this world.

Harry

 

[(Q)]

This topic was started by me and it was meant to give information about the teachings of the New Church.

Yes, in other words you’re preaching and this is a debate forum. This thread belongs in World Religion Discussions.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Spiritual Son,

What are you here for? To convert them? In this forum it's hard to know who is Catholic or who is Protestants. This topic was started by me and it was meant to give information about the teachings of the New Church. All opinions are welcome. Whether you believe or not is up to you. I have another topic in other religions called New Church (Swedenborg) but none of you want to leave any replies.

Alrighty, this explains a lot. First of all, if you don't want to debate, lemme tell ya it was a huge mistake to name your thread 'The Truth About God.' I can't think of any topic under more debate right now than that. I have seen your other forum. Perhaps that's what you meant to do when you started this one?

A truly good person no mater what religion they have will find the truth, when looking for it. The Lord will lead them to it, because good loves truth,and truth loves good. Evil persons love ideas that are false,even if truth was looking at them in the face.

Unfortunately Harry, this makes you evil in my eyes, if I were to use your standards... but I suppose I am already evil in yours...?

Another reason is that truly good people are being brainwash with love by their parents, Priests or Pastor, who tell them that what they teach is true,and what everyone teaches is false,when the parents,Priest and Pastor themselves are teaching false ideas themselves. Some of you stay with the same religion because your parents were of the same.

I think that this is a pretty bold quote here. How, exactly, are you so certain that you have not been brainwashed? I can tell you, all of those other people of whom you speak would say that they are right and you are wrong. Obviously, only one of you can be in the right... if indeed the truth is to be found in either of your religions... so how then, can you deduce a victor?

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the church isn't hypocritical, because it most certainly can be. However, that exists on every plane. He who is blameless, cast the first stone.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'm not accusing anyone of this, but since it's been mentioned, let me take the opportunity to remind everyone of the following rule:

Proselytizing will not be tolerated. This forum should be for sharing, discussing and understanding other religions and ideas, not converting others to your individual religion or beliefs.

This is in the debate forum, so expect anything posted here to be challenged and questioned.

Maize

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Actually, before I left Christianity all together, I would have found what Harry is saying very appealing. He makes some very good points, and this New Church appears to be less self-contradicting than Catholicism is at least.