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Featured The Power of a Message of Peace is Unfolding.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TransmutingSoul, Sep 21, 2022 at 3:39 PM.

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  1. No it is not possible!

    55.6%
  2. Yes it can be!

    22.2%
  3. I offer another alternative

    22.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    Peace be with you. :peace:

    Regards Tony
     
  2. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I can not comment on what the future may reveal in regards to this. Abdul'baha will most likely be proved right, especially if we read what was offered.

    O ye lovers of God! In this, the cycle of Almighty God, violence and force, constraint and oppression, are one and all condemned. It is, however, mandatory that the use of opium be prevented by any means whatsoever, that perchance the human race may be delivered from this most powerful of plagues. And otherwise, woe and misery to whoso falleth short of his duty to his Lord.

    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 149

    We are too close to a society that thinks the taking of recreational drugs is OK. I recently watched the story of Oxycodone.

    Bet there is many people wishing that this law was implemented long ago.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    I see our brother learning from Gods changes as he did before to write a new worlds testimony.

    Stating he had knowingly ignored all human families equals rights as that group of brother men who first agreed to hurt our fathers holy life.

    As learning always comes with a price. And humanity always paid that price as life versus machine greed.

    As machine is the position greedy men used to become greedier.

    Human fact time heals all wounds. Its easy to forget previous suffering.

    At this moment witnessing our world family dying from early age death daily sacrificed .....I wonder at what is not seen.
     
  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    We don't need access to the future, the war on drugs is a past event we can analyse in hindsight.

    'In June 2011, the Global Commission on Drug Policy released a critical report on the War on Drugs, declaring: "The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world. Fifty years after the initiation of the UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and years after President Nixon launched the US government's war on drugs, fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed."[6]'

    Source:
    War on drugs - Wikipedia

    Education is the best solution to that.

    I have not watched the "story of Oxycodone" (Is that on Netflix?) But have watched "Narcos" (you may wish to skip the scenes portraying nudity in it, but it gives a good idea of the violence unleashed upon Columbia during the war on drugs).

    Bet there are many more in Columbia who experienced life under the war on drugs who are opposed to such a law.

    In my opinion.
     
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  5. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    It was Disney Plus, called "Dopesick" One season.

    How they got away with it?

    Regards Tony
     
  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I see It will require the effort of every Nation and every Government.

    It is hard to educate when poverty is the way of life, so lots of changes are required and as to how that war will be waged in the future, is yet to be decided.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Sorry I dont understand your question, do you mean how did they get away with the violence? They didn't ultimately, but in the many years it took to eliminate them due to the influence of their massive cash fortunes they carried out violent campaigns of intimidation that killed many.

    In my opinion.
     
  8. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Well it will be hard to eliminate poverty until humans discontinue over producing, fortunately education seems to have had a good effect on that though so maybe there is hope it can be eliminated.

    I dont know how you will get a combined approach to the war on drugs considering the price Columbians paid for co-operating with the US in it. But perhaps you'll get lucky. We'll see.

    In my opinion.
     
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  9. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    These statistics show it is still an issue. It also reflects what Abdul'baha offered about opioids

    fig1od2020.jpg fig2od2020.jpg

    Regards Tony
     
  10. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Veteran Member

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    What InvestigateTruth says below makes it sound like a great tribulation is predicted by the Baha'i Faith before the world comes together. That is what I had always heard also. Do you agree?

     
  11. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Not really, addicts OD-ing is a relatively peaceful way to go that doesn't take members of the public, government and law enforcement agencies with them unlike the war on drugs. To accurately reflect what Abdul-Baha was saying you would have to demonstrate that there was a beneficial effect that outweighed "any means whatsoever".

    Does the end - an increase in the amount of drugs - outweigh the violent means? Because that is what the war on drugs has achieved so far according to my understanding.

    In my opinion.
     
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  12. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    It really has not been disclosed CG, it would just be speculation. It is in official Writings.

    This is Offical by Shoghi Effendi.

    Citadel of Faith, Pages 124-127

    This is an extract.


    "AMERICA PASSING THROUGH CRISIS

    Moreover, the country of which it forms a part is passing through a crisis which, in its spiritual, moral, social and political aspects, is of extreme seriousness--a seriousness which to a superficial observer is liable to be dangerously underestimated.

    The steady and alarming deterioration in the standard of morality as exemplified by the appalling increase of crime, by political corruption in ever widening and ever higher circles, by the loosening of the sacred ties of marriage, by the inordinate craving for pleasure and diversion, and by the marked and progressive slackening of parental control, is no doubt the most arresting and distressing aspect of the decline that has set in, and can be clearly perceived, in the fortunes of the entire nation.

    Parallel with this, and pervading all departments of life--an evil which the nation, and indeed all those within the capitalist system, though to a lesser degree, share with that state and its satellites regarded as the sworn enemies of that system--is the crass materialism, which lays excessive and ever-increasing emphasis on material well-being, forgetful of those things of the spirit on which alone a sure and stable foundation can be laid for human society. It is this same cancerous materialism, born originally in Europe, carried to excess in the North American continent, contaminating the Asiatic peoples and nations, spreading its ominous tentacles to the borders of Africa, and now invading its very heart, which Bahá'u'lláh in unequivocal and emphatic language denounced in His Writings, comparing it to a devouring flame and regarding it as the chief factor in precipitating the dire ordeals and world-shaking crises that must necessarily involve the burning of cities and the spread of terror and consternation in the hearts of men. Indeed a foretaste of the devastation which this consuming fire will wreak upon the world, and with which it will lay waste the cities of the nations participating in this tragic world-engulfing contest, has been afforded by the last World War, marking the second stage in the global havoc which humanity, forgetful of its God and heedless of the clear warnings uttered by His appointed Messenger for this day, must, alas, inevitably experience..."

    That was written after the 2nd world war, so a warning of possible events to come.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    That response I see neglects to consider all the damage, hurt and pain caused to family and friends and to all those that suffered as a result of the illegal activity used to purchase the substance. Inclusive of the mental anguish suffered by law enforcement.

    Regards Tony
     
  14. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Well some estimates put the number of police officers killed by the Medellin cartel alone at 5,000 and the number of people killed at more than 100,000. How do you think the family and friends of those slain people and police officers felt? Take that and add the numbers killed by all the other cartels and you'll have something to compare the mental anguish of those who have OD'd during and since the war on drugs anyway (perhpas even partly because of it).

    In my opinion.
     
  15. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    So this all adds up to how bad Opium has been, supporting what Abdul'baha offered.

    Imagine if they got on top of this back in the early 1990's.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I'm not saying drugs are good, I agree they are bad, but the US war on drugs caused a great many police and civilian deaths that may not have happened if we weren't trying to kill the leaders of the cartels simply for doing business Tony.

    First the medellin cartel started killing police officers in retaliation, then they started attacking their civilian supporters in an effort to change the minds of the populace away from violent confrontation, lastly they realised that politicians are prepared to sacrifice any number of non-personaly related civilian lives so they began taking the families of the politicians as hostage. Once the personal cost was high enough to the politicians they one by one backed down or where assassinated.

    If all that could have been avoided by simply letting the narcos conduct their trade provided they didn't engage in terrorism then it would have been wiser to let them do so.

    You say, "Imagine if they got on top of this back in the early 1990's" as if no one was trying desperately to do this since 1971.

    In my opinion.
     
  17. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    This is worth a thought.

    These are the darkest hours before the break of day. Peace, as promised will come at night's end. Press on to meet the dawn.

    Universal House of Justice, Ridván Message, April 1993

    Regards Tony
     
  18. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    We need women to help out here :):D

    "At a time when conquest and aggression have lost their credibility as means of solving difficult problems, qualities in which women are strong, such as the capacity to link intuition to the other rational processes, and facility with networking and cooperation, are gaining importance. Thus as increasing numbers of women are admitted into centers of decision-making, consultation is being enlightened by fresh perspectives; a new moral and psychological climate is spreading, enabling new dynamics of problem-solving to emerge. The inclusion of women thus directly affects the pace and success of the peace-building process."

    Bahá’í International Community, 1993 Mar 15, Women Peace Process

    Regards Tony
     
  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    It's a common feature of proselytizing religions, pyramid schemes, and multi-level marketing rackets that they use rhetoric that they're about something greater:

    - "Recruit your friends and family to sell makeup to their friends and family and you're supporting women's entrepreneurship!"

    - "Get your acquaintances to invest in this ponzi scheme and you're helping them achieve financial independence!"

    - "Bring more people into the Baha'i faith and you're helping to bring about world peace!"

    I put the same level of trust in the truth of all of these messages, and for similar reasons.
     
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  20. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    It is more about fostering the required dialogue that will enable peace based initiatives.

    It requires us to build those foundations in our diversity of race, gender, nationality or religion.



    Regards Tony
     
    #40 TransmutingSoul, Sep 23, 2022 at 4:33 PM
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022 at 6:00 PM
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