Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I'd still like to know, from any Muslim who cares to answer, what you think Islam offers that the law of Moses does not.
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I'd still like to know, from any Muslim who cares to answer, what you think Islam offers that the law of Moses does not.
Union, is this not just tinkering with the law? It's hardly worth starting a whole new movement on the basis of a few minor alterations to the law.
What Jesus came to bring was not a bit of tinkering to the outward law, it was the fulfilment of the law in love. That same spirit of love is sent to those who place their faith in the risen Christ.
Do you know of a religion that can send the Holy Spirit?
How do you interprete this verse?
"Verily the only acceptable religion to Allah is Islam." [Quran 3:19]
The point is to know what "the Author" of Quran meant.
Do you think that the Author of Quran, by Islam, He meant the Revelation that came to Muhammad, or He meant submission to God?
My position is that it should be interpreted this way:
"Verily the only acceptable religion to Allah is Submission to the God's commands."
and my reason is, in other verses, people who lived before Muhammad, were also called "Muslims", for example see Quran 7:126
and since, those who were called "Muslims" were not Muslims by name (as they even didn't speak Arabic), but by actions were submitters to God, then it follows that, by Islam, the Author of Quran meant "submission" and not just a name.
If you think, differently, please provide your point and support with verses of Quran, and Authentic Hadithes.
P.S. Please not that this thread is not to discuss whether Quran is from God or not, or if Islam is a good religion or not. It is only about interpretation, and what the Author of Quran meant regarding this verse.
Union, is this not just tinkering with the law? It's hardly worth starting a whole new movement on the basis of a few minor alterations to the law.
What Jesus came to bring was not a bit of tinkering to the outward law, it was the fulfilment of the law in love. That same spirit of love is sent to those who place their faith in the risen Christ.
If I may, you already have the answer. Islam means submission as you know. Muslim = Mu + Islam.
e.g. Safer = to travel. Mu = One who does it. Musafer = Traveller/One who travels.
So Muslim means one who submits/One who is submissive.
Think of this a bit. Judaism is in its name, an -ism, its a name given by us humans. e.g. American. Or Marxism. Christianity is also a name similar to that. Islam is not such a name. Rather it is a description. So you are right, it is something that existed since time began. Hope you understand. e.g. Gravity.
The issue is the word religion. When you say "The only religion is Islam" it sounds like a narrow way of putting things. But if you say "The only system is submission" then it sounds very broad.
The system
One God. One Deity. There is no other deity. Nothing else is divine.
Men and women are equal in Gods eyes
Men have more responsibility in providing for the woman.
Freedom of Creed.
Freedom of travel.
No compulsion in the system.
You have to be peaceful.
If you are attacked or someone is oppressed you should fight.
If they come peacefully you should opt to peace.
No racism.
Other divorce laws and every teaching in the Quran.
So it is a way of life and governance. That is Islam. Peace & Submission. Wonder if that makes any sense or I made it a bit more confusing... Peace.
Well, Union, I'm a Gentile saved by Jesus!
The message of the Bible begins with the words, 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.' and in the last book of the New Testament it says, 'And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.'
Encapsulated within the covers of the Bible is a complete story of the heaven and earth to which we belong. It tells the whole story of God's dealings with mankind.
Doesn't it strike you as odd that Muhammad is not mentioned in that record, if his position is so important?
Why should people be encouraged back to a system of law when the Messiah has come into the world to complete the law and offer a new testament in the spirit?
I really have no axe to grind. I searched for truth and found Jesus. I wasn't born a Christian! I don't think it's possible to be born into faith in Jesus Christ. You have to be 'born again'.
IMO, everything fits together beautifully!
Firedragon, How can law bring salvation? The failure of religion is the failure of human beings.
Sega, nowhere in the New Testament is there any mention of Ahmad. There are, however, a host of passages that refer to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is clearly not a man. The Holy Spirit is sent by God to dwell in all who place their faith in Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God come to dwell in human hearts. It comes when a person repents and places their faith in the risen Christ. It enables a sinner to begin a new life.
Are there any statements made in the Qur'an, or Hadith, that suggest Muhammad was sinless, raised from death, or able to send the Holy Spirit?
The reason that God felt it necessary to send Jesus Christ to be a Saviour was that sin and death could not be defeated by sinful men attempting to be righteous. Religion cannot save anyone.
Ask yourself, and your friends, whether you, or they, are sinless. I guarantee that there will not be one man or woman who is spotless. If you are not spotless you cannot expect a place in heaven, or indeed in paradise. The realm of God is without sin, so sin cannot be allowed to pollute what is holy. The consequence is that you rely on God's mercy to forgive you of your sins. But law is based on justice; you have no right to expect mercy. God has laid down the blessings and the punishments associated with the law. If you break the law then you are punished.
But if your Saviour is without sin, and has died to pay the price for sin, and has been raised to heaven, THEN you have a Saviour who is able to offer forgiveness on behalf of his friends. And who are his friends? Are they not those who place their faith in HIM?
You should read the New Testament carefully for yourself. It leaves no doubt that Jesus must have been crucified. It also gives credible evidence that he was raised to life again. This is something the Qur'an clearly denies.
You should also look closely at the words and actions of Jesus during his ministry. He worked signs and wonders because he had the authority of God - can the same be said for Muhammad?
If you try cutting out those passages of the New Testament that don't fit with the Qur'an you'll quickly discover that you don't have a New Testament. This should make you face an uncomfortable choice. Either Jesus Christ was a liar, or the Qur'an is a false prophecy.
Sega, nowhere in the New Testament is there any mention of Ahmad. There are, however, a host of passages that refer to the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is clearly not a man. The Holy Spirit is sent by God to dwell in all who place their faith in Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God come to dwell in human hearts. It comes when a person repents and places their faith in the risen Christ. It enables a sinner to begin a new life.
Are there any statements made in the Qur'an, or Hadith, that suggest Muhammad was sinless, raised from death, or able to send the Holy Spirit?
The reason that God felt it necessary to send Jesus Christ to be a Saviour was that sin and death could not be defeated by sinful men attempting to be righteous. Religion cannot save anyone.
Ask yourself, and your friends, whether you, or they, are sinless. I guarantee that there will not be one man or woman who is spotless. If you are not spotless you cannot expect a place in heaven, or indeed in paradise. The realm of God is without sin, so sin cannot be allowed to pollute what is holy. The consequence is that you rely on God's mercy to forgive you of your sins. But law is based on justice; you have no right to expect mercy. God has laid down the blessings and the punishments associated with the law. If you break the law then you are punished.
But if your Saviour is without sin, and has died to pay the price for sin, and has been raised to heaven, THEN you have a Saviour who is able to offer forgiveness on behalf of his friends. And who are his friends? Are they not those who place their faith in HIM?
You should read the New Testament carefully for yourself. It leaves no doubt that Jesus must have been crucified. It also gives credible evidence that he was raised to life again. This is something the Qur'an clearly denies.
You should also look closely at the words and actions of Jesus during his ministry. He worked signs and wonders because he had the authority of God - can the same be said for Muhammad?
If you try cutting out those passages of the New Testament that don't fit with the Qur'an you'll quickly discover that you don't have a New Testament. This should make you face an uncomfortable choice. Either Jesus Christ was a liar, or the Qur'an is a false prophecy.
Of course, Jesus is cited in the Gospels but remember the gospels are written in Greek and he is mentioned as "Ieesous and Ieesaw (John 18:15)". Thus, you cannot throw away an argument that way. By the way I have to just add that the greek name is very similar to the Arabic name Isa. Thus when though I dont retort generally it is quizzical when Christians dismiss the name Isa when they adopt the Greek name but deny the Arabic name. These are just languages, the person is the same
I believe I may have been unclear to you, otherwise you would not have asked me this question.
Quran has law, theology for salvation and systems for human a human life. It is not only a book for salvation as in what you should be in order to attain salvation.
I hope I am clear. I did not say "Law brings salvation".
But Quran does not teach you that pure belief in a prophet and God or such thing will give you a direct ticket to salvation. You must follow the law and if you break them it is counted as sin, of course honest change, declaration and making amends will do. e.g. No racism, false slander, cheating etc. It is not like "You believe in me and dont worry about anything else. I will take you to heaven"
Rather
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve. – Quran 2:62
Peace bro