1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The kingdom of heaven

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,157
    Ratings:
    +1,210
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    Oh I get it Jesus said different stuff to different people. Im sorry that doesn't make sense and I cant figure out what that means gibbidy gibbidy
     
  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,769
    Ratings:
    +1,574
    I find Jesus was speaking to the hate-filled Pharisees when he said the kingdom of God was within them.
    Thus, the ' you ' was Not people in general but addressing those enemy Pharisees.
    Please notice the context as found at Luke 17:20-21.
    What was ' within' those Pharisees we can read at Mark 7:20-23.
    So, the ' within ' at Luke 17:21 was that Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, was 'within' their midst. Jesus was among them.
    Jesus teaches his disciples at Luke 19:11-15 that the kingdom would Not appear instantly or immediately.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,769
    Ratings:
    +1,574
    I wonder what a local English teacher would comprehend about those verses ______________
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    7,312
    Ratings:
    +1,744
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Okay, I changed the subject a bit, sorry.
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    8,635
    Ratings:
    +2,601
    Religion:
    Christian
    In the sermon on the mount Jesus is talking about a new age a new era.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,643
    Ratings:
    +1,001
    Religion:
    Christian
     
  7. Zita

    Zita Solitary Eclectic Witch

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Messages:
    287
    Ratings:
    +96
    Religion:
    Witchcraft
    Yep, you are right they fuss all the time, that's why I don't believe the bible is true, if it was real, the power would be so big, they would take it all the same way. Nope!!
     
  8. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    13,246
    Ratings:
    +2,429
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    I had the same question.

    Is God within or was merely in midst of the Pharisees?
     
  9. MrMrdevincamus

    MrMrdevincamus Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,278
    Ratings:
    +248
    Religion:
    'Primitive Christian' Means we reject supersessionism.
    The initial question (verse 20) asked by the Pharisees (member of a Jewish sect that practiced Rabbinic Judaism) was, "When is the Kingdom of God coming?" Jesus gave the short version, and it was short for effect which was; "You won't be able to discern the coming of the Kingdom because you haven't recognized that I am its chief representative, though I have been among you." What confuses many is that the long answer ie verses 22 to 37 is his answer to his disciples (students). So, he was explaining when God would set up his kingdom on earth. The first coming of Jesus was to prepare the way by fulfilling old testament prophesy. Without the fulfilled prophesy the kingdom of God will not happen. Most of the old testament prophesies have been fulfilled. Israel becoming a nation in one day in the year 1948 (I think) fulfilled a major prophesy. A few more must be fulfilled such as the temple being rebuilt one more time. The big problem is the temple must be built on top of one of Islam's most holy sites ie the dome of the rock! Of course if that happens world war three will probably commence, and that third world war may fulfill one of the last prophies ie the battle of Armageddon. Does this help or clarify the mentioned scripture ?
     
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    8,635
    Ratings:
    +2,601
    Religion:
    Christian
    You must follow Scofield. Revelation says there is NO temple because Jesus is the Temple.

    The State of Israel has no king.. Its a stretch to consider it a fulfillment of prophecy.

    There wasn't Rabbinic Judaism until after the destruction of the Temple.

    The Pharisees were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought in the Holy Land during the time of Second Temple Judaism.

    After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, Pharisaic beliefs became the foundational, liturgical and ritualistic basis for Rabbinic Judaism.

    Conflicts between Pharisees and Sadducees took place in the context of much broader and longstanding social and religious conflicts among Jews, made worse by the Roman conquest.
     
  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,288
    Ratings:
    +503
    Religion:
    Christian


    Jesus is talking about saying the kingdom of heaven is within you
    If a person's faith, beliefs are strong, as a little child, then the kingdom of heaven is within you, within your reach
     
  12. Vee

    Vee Active Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    813
    Ratings:
    +1,259
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    In Luke 17:20,21 it might seem that Jesus is saying that the Kingdom reigns in the hearts of the Pharisees to whom Jesus is speaking, but they didn't accept Jesus as king, so that can't be it. What Jesus seems to say is that it is in their midst because the chosen King of God’s Kingdom, Jesus, is right there among them. (Matt. 21:5)

    The Bible defines the Kingdom as a real government established by God himself, with Jesus ruling the earth from his place in heaven (Rev. 11:15).
     
  13. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,157
    Ratings:
    +1,210
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    The chosen? Your a Primitive Baptist? My dad was one they believed in the chosen generation, born to go ro heaven or hell predestination-the chosen generation.
     
  14. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    585
    Ratings:
    +112
    Religion:
    Christian
    Riders,
    There are very many Bible translations. Almost all are accurate, but with many you need to compare what other translation say to make sure that you are getting the original message.
    In the translation you are using, the message seems to be saying that the coming of the Kingdom would not come with striking observableness. This is not what Jesus was saying!! Jesus was saying that the Kingdom was in their midst, meaning Jesus Himself, being that he was to be the King of the coming Kingdom, The Messianic Kingdom. Some translations say the Kingdom is within you, meaning within the group assembled.
    We know this is what Jesus meant, because the Kingdom, when it comes to earth will be striking, with lightning from one end of the heavens to the other end, Matthew 24:27,30. Also speaking about that same time period, Ezekiel says that everything will be shaking with freight, Ezekiel 38:20, mountains even falling, and every wall falling. All these things are pretty observable!!! Agape!
     
  15. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,157
    Ratings:
    +1,210
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    I agree with that and also my interpretation.
     
  16. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    585
    Ratings:
    +112
    Religion:
    Christian
    Sita,
    There are NO contradictions in the Original Autographs. Any seeming contradiction is in a poor translation, or your understanding is not correct. Please do not condemn yourself, because God Himself promised that He will protect His word from every generation, Psalms 12:6,7. Do as the Bible suggests, search for truth as you would for hidden treasure, Proverbs 2:2-9, 1Peter 1:25. Agape!!!
     
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    40,146
    Ratings:
    +3,153
    yeah.....

    after the last breath.....we enter that realm that we know

    our dreams
     
  18. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,005
    Ratings:
    +149
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    Please explain why do you think so? That doesn’t mean Jesus would not come back as he has told.
     
  19. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,157
    Ratings:
    +1,210
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    We should be living for the moment one day at a times like my Zen beliefs and AA teach us. God never meant for us to walk around looking for signs all the time, youll get nowhere with that and then forget to live today. I believe in living in the moment.A
    watched pot never boils.
     
  20. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,589
    Ratings:
    +1,470
    Religion:
    Christian
    In my study of Matthew (the first five chapters) I felt that there were some strong Buddhist influences. The idea of the Kingdom of God seems to be a variety of Nirvana and this passage (although not from Matthew) helps, potentially, to tie Matthew's beatitudes to the eight noble truths. The beatitudes speak of psychological effort and the kingdom quite extensively in such a short space of scripture.
     
Loading...