The irony in the Baha'i faith

[CG Didymus]

Are you saying that Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism are all cults?

Hmmm, that's an interesting thing to explore. Of course there have been Christian cults. Christianity was probably looked at as a cult in the beginning. Christianity pushed itself off as having the only truth and that Jesus was God. And that any one that doesn't believe in Jesus was going to burn in hell. That all those people that didn't have Jesus were followers of Satan. Some Christian leaders tortured and killed people if they wouldn't convert.

So how do Baha'is see some of the Christian sects? Fundies? There are the only ones right. The Bible is to be believed literally, or you're wrong. Catholics... they have statues of Mary and saints. They eat a wafer and drink wine and believe it is the body and blood of Christ. They confess their sins to a priest. Pentecostals… They lay hands on each other to heal each and to cast out demons. They get filled with the Holy Spirit and jump around speaking in tongues. You know, I wouldn't blame you if you called them cults. But, I know you won't.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hmmm, that's an interesting thing to explore. Of course there have been Christian cults. Christianity was probably looked at as a cult in the beginning. Christianity pushed itself off as having the only truth and that Jesus was God. And that any one that doesn't believe in Jesus was going to burn in hell. That all those people that didn't have Jesus were followers of Satan. Some Christian leaders tortured and killed people if they wouldn't convert.

So how do Baha'is see some of the Christian sects? Fundies? There are the only ones right. The Bible is to be believed literally, or you're wrong. Catholics... they have statues of Mary and saints. They eat a wafer and drink wine and believe it is the body and blood of Christ. They confess their sins to a priest. Pentecostals… They lay hands on each other to heal each and to cast out demons. They get filled with the Holy Spirit and jump around speaking in tongues. You know, I wouldn't blame you if you called them cults. But, I know you won't.

I would call the branch Davidians of Waco, Texas a cult but would look for common ground with Christians. Baha’is accept the Sonship and Divinity of Christ, the immaculate conception, the Divine inspiration of the New Testament, that the blood of Jesus symbolised the new Covenant and the bread the Body of Christ that symbolised the Church. Baha’is of the West often have a close affinity for Christians.

 

[Jim]

I’m seeing something more clearły now that might be part of what annoys people sometimes in their interactions with Baha’is. It isn’t that sometimes Baha’is think their beliefs are right and everyone else’s beliefs are wrong. They might not do that any more than anyone else. It’s that sometimes people think that Baha’is believe that all religions are equal, and at the same time, sometimes it looks like Baha’is think that they are the only ones who can’t be wrong about what their own scriptures are saying.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I’m seeing something more clearły now that might be part of what annoys people sometimes in their interactions with Baha’is. It isn’t that sometimes Baha’is think their beliefs are right and everyone else’s beliefs are wrong. They might not do that any more than anyone else. It’s that sometimes people think that Baha’is believe that all religions are equal, and at the same time, sometimes it looks like Baha’is think that they are the only ones who can’t be wrong about what their own scriptures are saying.

I see it has naught to do with what any of us might think we know. In the end it boils down to this; If Baha'u'llah is right, then the people of all Faiths share the same source of inspiration. Baha'u'llah in this age has offered;

"... That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 255.

So why would anyone be annoyed if they are wanting to know and love God? When they find out it is possible we all share the same God, maybe that is what annoys some people, they find out they do not have exclusive truth, that they have to alter what they beleive to become inclusive of all and that they have to embrace God as the only source. They have to embrace Faiths and concepts that for years they have rejected.

It then stands to reason that the world and its thoughts are in such a state of decay, because this can not yet be realised;

".. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded... "

I will put my trust in that One God, that this is happening and mankind does have the capacity to implement this change.

How do you see the God given Message of Baha'u'llah unfolding, without any opposition or annoyance? It is a fact in the writings that opposition and annoyance will increase and I personally welcome and embrace it. It can show people that we do Love all unconditionally.

God is the source for all our great inspirations Jim.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

"... That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician.

Am I reading that wrong or is everyone expected to become a Baha'i and drop their old religious beliefs?

 

[Vinayaka]

Am I reading that wrong or is everyone expected to become a Baha'i and drop their old religious beliefs?

How could one NOT drop their old beliefs?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Am I reading that wrong or is everyone expected to become a Baha'i and drop their old religious beliefs?

Yes you read that wrong.

To acknowledge there is one God means you do not drop your God given faith, it means you embrace all the others that are also from God.

We then embrace our unity, in our Diversity.

The Message pivots on the fundamental reality that we are One Human race, with One God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How could one NOT drop their old beliefs?

One explores their faith with new oncepts. In my opinion.

Wizanda has a post on this now.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

One explores their faith with new oncepts. In my opinion.

Wizanda has a post on this now.

Regards Tony

Sure, if that's how the individual sees it. It's up to the individual to see it how they wish. Personally I see a true conversion as dropping at least some key concepts of the previous faith. For instance how can a Christian believe that Christ is the ONLY way, after becoming a Baha'i. They can still have reverance fror Christ, but is would seem to me that they'd have to drop the ONLY part, no?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sure, if that's how the individual sees it. It's up to the individual to see it how they wish. Personally I see a true conversion as dropping at least some key concepts of the previous faith. For instance how can a Christian believe that Christ is the ONLY way, after becoming a Baha'i. They can still have reverance fror Christ, but is would seem to me that they'd have to drop the ONLY part, no?

I see Christ is the only way.

No need to explain, but it can be done.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Sure, if that's how the individual sees it. It's up to the individual to see it how they wish. Personally I see a true conversion as dropping at least some key concepts of the previous faith. For instance how can a Christian believe that Christ is the ONLY way, after becoming a Baha'i. They can still have reverance fror Christ, but is would seem to me that they'd have to drop the ONLY part, no?

If 90% of the beliefs that some Christians take as literal, were taken as figurative, then the problem is solved. No Creation, but Adam was a manifestation and had a cycle named after him. Did you know that Hinduism was part of the Adamic Cycle? No literal Flood, but Noah was a manifestation. No, and none of these people really lived hundreds of years... silly goose! That's obviously the Bible being figurative again. Of course Satan's not real. Who needs an evil spirit being anyway. The good news is that Christians can still believe in the virgin birth and the "immaculacy" of Mary? which I think is a Catholic belief that Mary was born pure or something. And, they can still believe Jesus rose from the dead.... spiritually. And that he came back... spiritually as Baha'u'llah. So you see they really don't have to change that much. Yes, some things deserve sarcasm.

 

[Jim]

Am I reading that wrong or is everyone expected to become a Baha'i and drop their old religious beliefs?

I don’t think that it’s about beliefs, or membership in the Baha’i Faith community.

 

[Jim]

If 90% of the beliefs that some Christians take as literal, were taken as figurative, then the problem is solved. No Creation, but Adam was a manifestation and had a cycle named after him. Did you know that Hinduism was part of the Adamic Cycle? No literal Flood, but Noah was a manifestation. No, and none of these people really lived hundreds of years... silly goose! That's obviously the Bible being figurative again. Of course Satan's not real. Who needs an evil spirit being anyway. The good news is that Christians can still believe in the virgin birth and the "immaculacy" of Mary? which I think is a Catholic belief that Mary was born pure or something. And, they can still believe Jesus rose from the dead.... spiritually. And that he came back... spiritually as Baha'u'llah. So you see they really don't have to change that much. Yes, some things deserve sarcasm.

I’m seeing part of the problem now as Baha’is exempting themselves from things they say about the followers of other religions, while pretending to think that we are all equal. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes you read that wrong.

To acknowledge there is one God means you do not drop your God given faith, it means you embrace all the others that are also from God.

We then embrace our unity, in our Diversity.

The Message pivots on the fundamental reality that we are One Human race, with One God.

Regards Tony

That looks good, but in a Bahai World all those people wouldn't have a vote.

 

[Vinayaka]

I’m seeing part of the problem now as Baha’is exempting themselves from things they say about the followers of other religions, while pretending to think that we are all equal. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own.

That's pretty much it, and the gist of the entire discussion on this forum with Baha'is.

 

[Jim]

That looks good, but in a Bahai World all those people wouldn't have a vote.

Only in your Baha’i world. Not in any future world that I imagine. But I think that we’ve already agreed that the Baha’i Faith that you’ve been criticizing is not any worldwide community that has ever existed or ever possibly could exist, outside of some people’s imaginations.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

........ Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures ....... Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ...

That can not be changed, it is the core of the Message of Baha'u'llah, to which many many quotes can be given.

The Kitab-i-Iqan is largely devoted to that concept.

That is what is meant by a new heaven and a new earth as the former things have passed away.

Jim it is impossible to control people's responses to such a great challenge.

Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

My head is spinning. I posted this:

I’m seeing part of the problem now as Baha’is exempting themselves from things they say about the followers of other religions, while pretending to think that we are all equal. Saying that most of the people of the world don’t understand their own scriptures .., except for themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that what looks obvious to people in their scriptures isn’t always true ... except for what looks obvious to themselves and some other Baha’is. Saying that they themselves and some other Baha’is are the only people in the world who can’t be wrong in what they think are the fundamental beliefs of their religion. Rejecting the most conservative and sectarian views of all religions ... except their own.

Now a Baha’i has called that the core of the message of Bahá’u’lláh!

The core of the message of Bahá’u’lláh is for Baha’is to exempt themselves from what they say about the followers of other religions, while pretending to think that we are all equal? My head is spinning.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

As such the Message of Baha'u'llah will fully explain one's faith, help them to understand what is from God and what has been added by man.

Did Baha'u'llah proclaim himself to be God and the awaited teacher from multiple religions prophecies?

Can someone please explain to me the Bahai method that is used to separate religious texts into what is from man and what is from God?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Did Baha'u'llah proclaim himself to be God and the awaited teacher from multiple religions prophecies?

Can someone please explain to me the Bahai method that is used to separate religious texts into what is from man and what is from God?

Thank you for the question, welcome.

Yes the Message of Baha'u'llah does state that is the Message all people await.

As God has given all Messages in the potential of being world embracing, what separates what is from man and what is from God, is that All Good is from God.

The rest is from our own selves.

Regards Tony