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Featured The irony in the Baha'i faith

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sirona, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. Sirona

    Sirona Hindu Wannabe
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    Hi folks,

    The irony in the Baha'i faith is that they, despite their claim to do otherwise, facilitate religious animosities or at least irritation between religious groups (at least against themselves) by devaluing other people‘s religious backgrounds, which by nature is a very personal thing and might easily lead to feelings of being offended.

    Of course, in the first place, like any other people, Baha'is are individuals, but my intent is to describe what I see as an overall characteristic in that faith, regardless of any anecdotal evidence.

    Please discuss.
     
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  2. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?
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    You will be bombarded by denials. But it isn't necessary to point out the obvious to everyone else of other faiths.

    The sharing of personal beliefs which are seen as something everyone else should follow will always be arrogant and divisive.
     
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  3. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    As a former serious Baha'i let me give my thoughts.

    The Baha'i Faith presents an overly simplified view of the history of world religion (progressive revelation). The Baha'i Faith is a progression on the Abrahamic tradition and I have seen no indication (after searching) that the founders were exposed to or understood to any degree eastern (Buddhist/Hindu) religious/wisdom traditions,

    There is of course is no intended animosity between the Baha'i Faith and other faiths but rather unity. The Baha'i Faith is intended to replace all other faiths to unite mankind (all with positive intentions). That last fact is difficult for modern liberal thinking people to accept and has been de-emphasized to say the least in the modern presentation of the Baha'i Faith.
     
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  4. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Hear! Hear!
     
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  5. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    This is the most misunderstanding concept. I quote from Bahai Writings:

    "Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause. Its declared, its primary purpose is to enable every adherent of these Faiths to obtain a fuller understanding of the religion with which he stands identified, and to acquire a clearer apprehension of its purpose. It is neither eclectic in the presentation of its truths, nor arrogant in the affirmation of its claims. Its teachings revolve around the fundamental principle that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is progressive, not final. Unequivocally and without the least reservation it proclaims all established religions to be divine in origin, identical in their aims, complementary in their functions, continuous in their purpose, indispensable in their value to mankind."

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 57-60


    Essentially, Baha'I Faith claims, Religion of God needs to be renewed in every Age.
    Thus Bahai Faith is the renewed Christ Faith. It is the renewed Hinduism. It is the renewed Islam. As much as even as Christ and other Messengers have said, the Religion would get distorted by false teachers, thus all Religions promised a Person to appear at the end, to renewe Religion and teach the original Faith. Bahais believe, this promise is fulfilled by the person of Bahaullah, and He is the One all previous Foumders of Religions had promised to come.
     
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  6. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    So, contrary to other Baha'i, you agree that Jesus of Nazareth was literally crucified, entombed, and resurrected, then ascended into heaven?
    Because if you don't believe that, but believe instead that Jesus was metaphorically resurrected and ascended into heaven, you are "replacing", not "renewing", the authentic beliefs of the earliest christians..
     
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  7. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    Yes, I was familiar with those quotes and they don’t contradict anything I posted.

    The Baha’i Faith is intended to be a new independent world religion that respects, fulfills and now supersedes the religions created by the earlier divine manifestations.
     
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  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Firstly, there are a whole lot of people who do not even accept the existence of God \ Allah.

    Secondly, leaving aside other religions, as a Hindu, I do not think my religion requires any renewal. That is basically saying that what you believe is wrong and what I believe is right. You or the founders of your religion hardly know Hinduism and you say that it requires renewal.

    The Hindu mention of Kalki avatara is for ignorant people and fools. And those who created this promise took care to date it exactly 426,879 years from now, making sure that no imposter or charlatan would say that he is Kalki. If Bahaullah said that he is the avatara for Hindus than these two epithets would apply to him. So be careful.

    Other religions have not given the date of the next coming, but in Hinduism it is crystal clear - at the end of Kaliyuga, 426,879 years from now.
     
    #8 Aupmanyav, Dec 22, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  9. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Religion is by its very nature going to be controversial whether its Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity or Islam statements are made about the nature of reality. Every religion will make statements about the world we live that members of other religions will find objectionable. The Baha’i Faith is no exception. While we naturally look for points of agreement we don’t pretend for one moment there are not many points of disagreement. Baha’is don’t believe in reincarnation for example whereas most Hindus will. On the other hand we see the Hindu religion as having Divine origins. You might feel insulted or devalued by those statements or you may not. The Baha’i Faith is what it is.
     
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  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    If you really want peace and brotherhood, then don't make statements which others find objectionable. Did not the founder of your religion understand this simple thing.

    We have a saying in Sanskrit: "Satyam bruyat, priyam bruyat, ma bruyat satyam apriyam, priyam ca nanrutam bruyat esha dharmah sanatanah."
    (Speak truth, speak what is pleasing to others. Never speak truth which is unpleasant to others. Dont also speak untruth, though it may be pleasant, this is the path of eternal morality, Sanatana dharma).
     
    #10 Aupmanyav, Dec 22, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
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  11. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    That's the only irony you found?
     
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  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Windmills of your mind

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    If you mean devalue as in they are against other religions? No, that's not the impression I got. Devalue as in misconstrue the beliefs as a whole, yes. The biggest example is having all beliefs come from one god.

    What do you mean by overall characteristic in that faith?

    Also, I think you'd get a better or well rounded reply from an ex-bahai who is not against bahai beliefs. That, or someone who works with bahai but are not of that religion. Get an objective opinion. I can see the irony, but it's not harmful in and of itself. "Harm and wrong" has to do with people's actions. Evananglist, maybe. But I haven't seen it on here as pushful as I know other religions make it to be.

    It's to each his own.
     
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  13. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    So are all religions of the past distorted? If so, and the new religion, in this case the Baha'i Faith, had the "original" truth, why wouldn't they abrogate and get rid of those false beliefs? And isn't that exactly what Baha'is do? They tell all the previous religions how they are wrong. How they no longer have the "original" truth.

    But, we have the Scriptures of all the major religions, so do Baha'is believe that those false teachings made their way right into the Scriptures of each previous religion? And since Baha'is don't believe some Scriptures of some of the major religions are "wholly" authentic, then you don't believe these Scriptures are trustworthy. So what is it that you do believe about all the other religions? It is obvious, you believe only what the Baha'i Faith says about the other religions. Which, of course, totally contradicts what people in that religion believe. But you don't "abrogate" or "distort" them? Yes, I can see that. From a Baha'i point of view, they've distorted their own religion. aha'is are just bringing back the "original" teachings.
     
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  14. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    How many threads are going on right now where Baha'is are arguing how right they are, and how wrong the other person is. Too many Baha'is think they have to fight with all who don't agree with them. And what have they accomplished? Nothing but pushing people away.
     
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  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    You are supporting, with that argument, the Jewish protests against Christ.

    RegardsTony
     
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  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    No lasting change for good happens by letting every person have their own way.

    The best and most lasting change comes about by our own free will.

    That is the change we can all try to. Implement.

    Regards Tony
     
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  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Wise words indeed. We have a similar saying in the Baha'i Writings:

    Follow thou the way of thy Lord, and say not that which the ears cannot bear to hear, for such speech is like luscious food given to small children. However palatable, rare and rich the food may be, it cannot be assimilated by the digestive organs of a suckling child. Therefore unto every one who hath a right, let his settled measure be given.

    ‘Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.’ Such is the consummate wisdom to be observed in thy pursuits. Be not oblivious thereof, if thou wishest to be a man of action under all conditions.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 268-269

    It is one thing of course to say it and another to live by it.
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg World Citizen
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    It appears there are many that have chosen to offer how wrong it is. Thus a Baha'i spends quite some time trying to explain that is not the way a Baha'i does sees what another has offered.

    It a learning curve for us all.

    Regards Tony
     
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  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    And maybe that's a good thing.
     
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  20. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense.
    If you want to discuss the arguments of some Jews against Jesus, start a new thread.
    If you want to discuss the arguments of some Jews against Paul, start a new thread.
    If you want to discuss the arguments of some Jews against Christian "Replacement" theology within the last couple of hundred years, start a new thread,
    If you want to learn something new, about "double covenant" theology, start a new thread.
    By the way, you may want to bail Jim out of an awkward situation, go over to No need to believe in the literal truth of any theories or any Bible stories. If you do go there, take The Real Resurrection of Jesus with you. And maybe when you're finished there, you Baha'i can hold an on-line conference and get your terminology straight: was Jesus' resurrection literal, spiritual, metaphorical, allegorical, or whatever you guys want to call it.
    And you may want to stop using the title "Christ", there's only been and only ever will be one, the same who was crucified, entombed, and resurrected, and who ascended into heaven and later appeared to Paul, but did not come back as Baha'u'llah.
     
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