Let him who is without sin throw the first stone. I wonder where I’ve heard that saying.
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The irony in the Baha'i faith
- Thread starter Sirona
- Start date
Let him who is without sin throw the first stone. I wonder where I’ve heard that saying.
I wouldn’t take any of this personally. Every religion has their critics and the Baha’i Faith certainly do whether on RF or in the world in general. Each person is entitled to their perspective and make constructive criticism.
What has surprised me coming onto RF is the extent to which some Hindus become fixated on the Baha’i Faith and feel a need to criticise. However the majority of Hindus on RF reflect the peaceful and tolerant values of their faith.
Thanks for your post @George-ananda . You raise some interesting points and you having been a Baha’i adds an element of intrigue.
1/ Some Baha’is undoubtedly do have an overly simplistic view of religion. But I had understood we were encouraged to learn about other faiths and acquire a more profound understanding of religion and how it has shaped the course of civilisation.
2/ The Baha’i Faith as you know emerged from the Islamic world and then spread to the Christian West. While it has spread world wide throughout the middle of the twentieth century into Asia and the Indian subcontinent many Western Baha’is have a limited knowledge of religions in this part of the world. For me personally, joining RF presents a valuable opportunity to learn about faiths such as Hinduism. So while Christianity, atheism and Islam are often an relatively easy space for Western Baha’is the move into Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism is more challenging.
3/ I agree the focus of the Baha’i Faith is on unity and there’s no animosity. However it is your fourth point that arguably results in the most misunderstandings.
4/ You say the Baha’i Faith is intended to replace other religions. I don’t believe it is but understand why you might feel it is. The Baha’i Faith like Christianity, Islam and to a lesser extent Buddhism too have all sought to be global Faiths. However they were never intended to replace all other faiths and of course haven’t. They have however acquired significant followings thus changing the religious landscape of the planet and in the process profoundly influencing the course of history. That shift has resulted in a large movement away from other faiths and philosophies but they haven’t been replaced. Unlike Christianity and Islam any shift towards the Baha’i Faith will be through peaceful means and not through force and coercion. If the Baha’i Faith is what it claims to be this will inevitably come about and nothing anyone says here will stop it. If not we will eventually fade into obscurity. Time will tell.
Thanks again for sharing your interesting insights about the Baha’i Faith.
If a cause were of no significance, who would take the trouble to work against it!
Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 105.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Hello again.......
Bahai is also intended to be a World government. This can be seen in the criminal and civil laws, court systems, voting system, police force, etc...... more than just a religion, I think.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Wow!
Why didn't somebody teach me that 7 decades ago?
Oh well, better late than never.
To all those who believe we don’t need the Baha’i Faith and it’s just an ‘irony’.
How many countries have been torn apart by inter religious hatreds? How many killed? Even the same religions have gone to war against each other. How long is this to continue? Baha’u’llah has now created a new world community for people who don’t want to be a party anymore to these horrible wars and hatreds and so we are people from all religious backgrounds and none, all races and nationalities who are fed up with this partisanship between religions and within religions which is purely political not spiritual for spiritually we are all brothers and sisters and we are all one.
Is there any better solution for this age than the oneness of mankind. When I had in my home Hindus, Christians and Muslim’s and people from East and west, black and white races, people from India, Ghana, Mozambique, Burma and Australia and I was asked to read a prayer and give a talk, the only choice was to talk and pray about oneness and unity.
Baha’u’llah says humanity is all one spirit and one soul and that which divides us is imaginary boundaries or vain imaginings that we ourselves create in our own minds and unless they are torn down by each of us we will never know our oneness and the only way is through education. It is up to each person to become a lover of humanity.
How many countries have been torn apart by inter religious hatreds? How many killed? Even the same religions have gone to war against each other. How long is this to continue? Baha’u’llah has now created a new world community for people who don’t want to be a party anymore to these horrible wars and hatreds and so we are people from all religious backgrounds and none, all races and nationalities who are fed up with this partisanship between religions and within religions which is purely political not spiritual for spiritually we are all brothers and sisters and we are all one.
Is there any better solution for this age than the oneness of mankind. When I had in my home Hindus, Christians and Muslim’s and people from East and west, black and white races, people from India, Ghana, Mozambique, Burma and Australia and I was asked to read a prayer and give a talk, the only choice was to talk and pray about oneness and unity.
Baha’u’llah says humanity is all one spirit and one soul and that which divides us is imaginary boundaries or vain imaginings that we ourselves create in our own minds and unless they are torn down by each of us we will never know our oneness and the only way is through education. It is up to each person to become a lover of humanity.
The world decides for itself who it wants to govern it. We have no involvement in politics whatsoever.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Are you able to clarify these repeated questions to the point. I'm sure once there are clear, couple sentence bold answers the debate wouldn't be asking for clarification repeatedly
1. Does Baha'i religion replace older religions?
i.e. every manifestation is (lbw) upgrading past religions that are were only appropriate for that time period.
I.e. from Investigator:
"Thus Bahai Faith is the renewed Christ Faith. It is the renewed Hinduism. It is the renewed Islam."
Can this be clarified?
Replacement doesn't need to be a bad word. It's being direct though.
2. Does Baha'i believe that Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Buddhist, believe in the same abrahamic god?
i.e. Baha'i have many people from other religions consider themselves Baha'i (right?) So they must have some understanding of god in relation to other Faith's.
4.
Are Christians wrong that their god literally Rose from the dead?
(Same line of questioning) Are Hindus wrong? Are Buddhist?
Wrong/incorrect, etc aren't negative words. (You can use a synomnym if comfortable but long as it's to the point though)
5. Are the scriptures of other Faith's wrong?
And. Does Baha'i have the correct interpretation of them?
Not negative just not going around the bush over of
It kinda gets unnerving to read all of this when straight answers can cure all evils
Kalki is the 25th incarnation of Vishnu, who comes on a White Horse, from 'a Place of Peace' (Shambhala)... Skanda in the Bhagavad Gita, claims he will come to fight the Adharmic behaviour at the End of Time.
In Revelation the Lamb is among the 24 Elders, and comes on a White Horse, wearing a Crown the same as the Elders (Revelation 19:12), making it the 25th incarnation, from 'a Place of Peace' (New Jerusalem)...
The Messiah has a New Name recorded in Revelation 3:12, Sandalphon (Archangel Pillar), Sananda (New Name of Christ), Zion (New Jerusalem); where they come to fight the Sinful Behaviour before the End of Time.
We have very little time left before human extinction, based on most data concerning our planet; there is not 426,879 years left, unless we all work together to fix it.
Obviously as the Kalki Purana states, people don't listen to religious officials any more; so they ignored Baha'u'llah, etc, about military industrialization, and now we're on the verge of the Great Battle.
We should take into account Baha'u'llah prophesied that the next being sent would be an avenging angel, if we did not listen to his corrections; before we then come to the Age of Peace (Satya Yuga).
The problem with some is they seem to think the message stopped being transmitted:
- Like some Hindus think the Dharma stopped being transmitted in the past,
- then some Buddhist think it stopped with Buddha,
- Christians at Christ,
- Muhammadans at Muhammad,
- Baha'i at Baha'u'llah,
- etc.
In my opinion.
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I know you want a clear cut answer but the very best and most accurate answer to each and every one of your questions is what Baha’u’llah has stated. If not Him then Abdul-Baha, Shoghi Effendi or the Universal House of Justice simply because they are all we believe, Divinely Guided and Infallible and convey the true Baha’i spirit better than any Baha’i can convey.
Also it would likely require quoting pages and pages to explain the Baha’i view as it is complex not just a simple answer always. That’s where independent investigation of truth is what I recommend to you. Reading what Baha’u’llah says directly on these topics will convey not only the answer but the spirit of the answer. It is the spirit in which these questions are answered that impart the beautiful joy in our beliefs in all religions. If we make it too technical we lose sight of the spiritual nature of the Baha’i Faith.
People who know the spirit of the Baha’i Faith love us and do not fear us. It’s those who don’t know us in spirit who instead of looking for themselves listen to hearsay that creates confusion and misunderstanding which those who are against the Faith seek to achieve.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
This looks to me like a very good description of what Baha’is do sometimes, that people don’t like.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
Again, I see this as a good description of what happens on the Internet sometimes, and it has always grieved me. Not only with other people, but even more, with each other. I do it myself sometimes. I think I’ve been doing a lot better in the last year or two, but I did have some skirmishes with a few Baha’is.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
It could be a learning experience, with a very steep learning curve.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
Maybe there’s some divine wisdom in it that none us can see.
I see that some can see the humor in it. Maybe there’s some divine wisdom in that.
CG. This is why a lot of us prefer to use quotes because we can’t possibly compete with the Pen of Baha’u’llah. Often in my words I find that I might convey the truth but not the exact spirit which Baha’u’llah imparted so for now I might try more to find a quote because my answers are just not as accurate as the Word itself.
I know people don’t like long quotes but to abandon them completely was a bad mistake which now has us being criticised for the way we post. We mean exactly what Baha’u’llah or Abdul-Baha says but in our own words it sounds watered down a lot and doesn’t truly reflect what the Faith really stands for.
I’m going to provide you with my personal perspective of the Baha’i Faith that I hope and pray is based on the Baha’i writings. There are others here who can correct me if I err.
Before answering the questions if we’re going to be frank I don’t believe any answer from any Baha’i will satisfy some of the participants on this thread. There are at least four critics of the Baha’i Faith on this thread who have been talking to the Baha’is for nearly three years on this forum, in two instances longer. I can’t imagine that anything that’s said by the Baha’is will make too much difference for these individuals to be completely frank. I’m always open to discussion and really like each one a great deal but OTOH I have little interest when we seem to talk past each other, go round in circles or keep rehashing the same stuff ad nauseam.
Ok here goes....
The Baha’i Faith will not replace any religion. How could we? However the Baha’i Faith does present a renewed version of both Christianity and Islam. It does to a lesser extent do the same with both Buddhism and Hinduism.
Christians and Muslims believe in the God of Abraham. Most Buddhists and Hindus simply don’t think in terms of the God of Abraham. They may share many of the values and morals as their Abrahamic cousins but the whole narrative is quite different.
Baha’is don’t believe Jesus literally rose from the dead. How Christians see Jesus is their business but clearly we disagree He rose from the dead. You’ll find similar examples in other religions. Reincarnation in Hinduism is a example of a core difference with the Baha’i Faith.
The Quran is seen as the authenticated repository of the Word of God. The New Testament and Hebrew Scriptures are seen as more or less authentic. We can not say for certain to what extent the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures are authentic and that will be a matter for scholars to unravel.
The Baha’i Faith has a great deal to say about both Christian and Islamic Scriptures that we would see as being based on God’s Revelation through Bahá’u’lláh. Some of that will contradict what Muslims and Christians believe about their scriptures. Obviously the Baha’i Writings takes precedence for Baha’is.
The Baha’i Writings have little to say in regards Buddhism and Hinduism but we acknowledge there are nonetheless Baha’i beliefs that contradict some views that are cherished by many Hindus and Buddhists.
That is my take on the Baha’i Faith based on my understanding of the Baha’i writings accumulated over 30 years.
I hope I’ve answered your questions clearly, succinctly and honestly.
Before answering the questions if we’re going to be frank I don’t believe any answer from any Baha’i will satisfy some of the participants on this thread. There are at least four critics of the Baha’i Faith on this thread who have been talking to the Baha’is for nearly three years on this forum, in two instances longer. I can’t imagine that anything that’s said by the Baha’is will make too much difference for these individuals to be completely frank. I’m always open to discussion and really like each one a great deal but OTOH I have little interest when we seem to talk past each other, go round in circles or keep rehashing the same stuff ad nauseam.
Ok here goes....
The Baha’i Faith will not replace any religion. How could we? However the Baha’i Faith does present a renewed version of both Christianity and Islam. It does to a lesser extent do the same with both Buddhism and Hinduism.
Christians and Muslims believe in the God of Abraham. Most Buddhists and Hindus simply don’t think in terms of the God of Abraham. They may share many of the values and morals as their Abrahamic cousins but the whole narrative is quite different.
Baha’is don’t believe Jesus literally rose from the dead. How Christians see Jesus is their business but clearly we disagree He rose from the dead. You’ll find similar examples in other religions. Reincarnation in Hinduism is a example of a core difference with the Baha’i Faith.
The Quran is seen as the authenticated repository of the Word of God. The New Testament and Hebrew Scriptures are seen as more or less authentic. We can not say for certain to what extent the Buddhist and Hindu scriptures are authentic and that will be a matter for scholars to unravel.
The Baha’i Faith has a great deal to say about both Christian and Islamic Scriptures that we would see as being based on God’s Revelation through Bahá’u’lláh. Some of that will contradict what Muslims and Christians believe about their scriptures. Obviously the Baha’i Writings takes precedence for Baha’is.
The Baha’i Writings have little to say in regards Buddhism and Hinduism but we acknowledge there are nonetheless Baha’i beliefs that contradict some views that are cherished by many Hindus and Buddhists.
That is my take on the Baha’i Faith based on my understanding of the Baha’i writings accumulated over 30 years.
I hope I’ve answered your questions clearly, succinctly and honestly.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I would not take anything as true unless I get some evidence.
The Baha’i Writings are true for me and I accept they are not true for you. You are content with what you believe as I am with being a Baha’i. I don’t think I’ve ever tried to convince you and have no wish to.
There’s this book written a few decades back about the games people play. Its when two people are caught in a repetitive dialogue that does a disservice to either one or both parties.
Games People Play (book) - Wikipedia
Have you heard of it?