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Featured The irony in the Baha'i faith

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sirona, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    The key here is that the Baha'i Teaching say that it is the Foundation that makes Religion One. Abdul'baha explained this in many talks in many ways.

    Here are a couple;

    "In further consideration of this subject, I wish you to be fair and reasonable in your judgment, setting aside all religious prejudices. We should earnestly seek and thoroughly investigate realities, recognizing that the purpose of the religion of God is the education of humanity and the unity and fellowship of mankind. Furthermore we will establish the point that the foundations of the religions of God are one foundation. This foundation is not multiple for it is reality itself. Reality does not admit of multiplicity although each of the divine religions is separable into two divisions. One concerns the world of morality and the ethical training of human nature. It is directed to the advancement of the world of humanity in general; it reveals and inculcates the knowledge of God and makes possible the discovery of the verities of life. This is ideal and spiritual teaching, the essential quality of divine religion and not subject to change or transformation. It is the one foundation of all the religions of God. Therefore the religions are essentially one and the same." Abdu'l-Baha : Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section

    Also about Christ and what we can expect to see from a Valid Messenger,

    "Christ ratified and proclaimed the foundation of the law of Moses. Muhammad and all the prophets have revoiced that same foundation of reality. Therefore the purposes and accomplishments of the divine messengers have been one and the same. They were the source of advancement to the body-politic and the cause of the honor and divine civilization of humanity the foundation of which is one and the same in every dispensation. It is evident then that the proofs of the validity and inspiration of a prophet of God are the deeds of beneficent accomplishment and greatness emanating from Him. If He proves to be instrumental in the elevation and betterment of mankind, He is undoubtedly a valid and heavenly messenger." Abdu'l-Baha : Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section

    Regards Tony
     
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  2. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Baha'is in relation to other Faiths generally don't attack or belittle them.

    Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.”Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 138.

    Baha'is are active in interfaith gatherings on an international scale and as local participants in Interfaith Councils.

    Our Mission | parliamentofreligions.org

    You can see how Baha'is participated in previous meetings of the Parliament:

    https://news.bahai.org/story/739/

    Parliament of World Religions: When Faiths First Came Together
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    ha.
     
  4. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I too do not believe in this and have never said that. Why would I put Hinduism or Buddhism in the same category as Zoroastrianism or Abrahamic religions (One God only religions. Mine has thousands)?
    Then, if I may say so, Brahman has not written a very good play \ novel.
     
    #324 Aupmanyav, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Since your Allah SAYS, he is a being, natural or Supernatural. And he is an angry jealous God, Bible says that twice in Genesis and Duetronomy. He will punish even the third and the fourth generation of one who does not submit to him. Jesus asked this Allah to give the three cities a fate worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses and Mohammad did not ask anybody anything, they just beheaded all adult males and took the rest (women and children) as slaves.

    Even Zoroasters first demand from King Vistasp was to put his enemies (the Kavis) to death. Forget about peace and wholeness, such actions do not being that about. Why are these Gods so blood hungry and insistent on their own worship and ready to send people who do not worship them to eternal hell or destroy them? What do they gain out of it? Even in the text quoted by you, the Christian God says the he "causes (creates) troubles (disaster; calamity)", perhaps the Satanists are right, God is the Satan.
     
    #325 Aupmanyav, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    That too does not fit the Bahais. Bahais cannot take this approach, because it will render the claim of Bahaullah to be a "manifestion" of Allah as false, and no visit by the Maid of Heaven.
    Without any evidence that Bahaullah was a mirror image of Allah or a replica of Allah (or whatever you call him) or Allah himself (Bahaullah said many things, that manifestations are no different from Allah), why should anybody take his word to be coming from Allah, when even existence of this entity is debated. What if what he claimed was wrong? The reported vision of the Maid of Heaven is hardly convincing.
     
    #326 Aupmanyav, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  7. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I see that is this creation, is created with a Balance and God tells us how not to tip the balance and what the results are if we do. Thus I see that fair and just warnings are given. You would most likely know it as Karma.

    Stay well, regards Tony
     
  8. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Yeah, some do, some dont.For example, Ganesha and Kartikeya, sons of Shiva. They were born later. Even Mother Parvati is the daughter of the King of Mountains and was born (actually reborn. In her former avatara, she was Sati, the daughter of the king of humans, Daksha). Some of Lord Vishnus avataras were born in human form (Parashurama, Rama, Krishna and Buddha). Lord Hanuman also was born as a result of conjugal union between Kesari and Anjana, of the Vanara clan. Such things may happen to especially good people by grace of Gods and Goddesses. Of course, this is not what I believe, this is the Hindu theist belief.
    Talking about deeds of Moses, Abraham an Mohammad may lead to problems. Bahaullah also just talked and talked, wrote and wrote, dont think did much else.
    Ah, we too have many such organizations in India and many such meets are held. All religions do it for various purposes. Fishing or Ego.
    Sarva Dharma Sammelan - Wikipedia
    Had it not been better if there was no evil, only good. That is what all Gods \ Allahs want to achieve in the end. What stopped them from designing such a world right from the start?
     
    #328 Aupmanyav, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  9. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    And I say it is an unfathomably wonderful multi-dimensional work so beyond the perspective grasp of one three-dimensional experiencing speck inside it.
     
  10. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    The supposed Christian God, which they claim is the one and same God of Israel, created everything perfect... or did he? He created Satan. Then Satan rebelled. Then Satan deceived Adam and Eve into sinning. Then this All-Knowing God is surprised that all this happened? Not if he is All-Knowing. That had to be his plan from the beginning. So no, he didn't make it perfect. He made it flawed. Then cursed Adam and Eve and all their descendants. But being the nice God that he is, he knew he was going to save humanity by sending his Son Jesus to be a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

    Great story, but Baha'is don't believe it. So for Baha'is, why did God create evil and suffering? To test fallible, gullible people? Well great, he succeeded in fooling a lot of people. So now he knows who is worthy to praise and worship him, he is going to send them to a spiritual world where everything is perfect? But, Baha'is have no hell, so where do the people that failed the test go? Do they have to retake the test over and over until they pass?

    Hmmm? That would be a good idea. The ones that pass the test move on and the ones that fail go back and try again. Hmmm? What should we call such a plan?
     
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  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    That is the choice we all have. Have we taken the time to read the stories of these people, from sources that are aimed at a fair and just rendition? Forme the stories of Moses and Muhammad show great deeds and justice in the times they lived.

    As for Baha'u'llah, this is only recent history and any reading of His childhood and years prior to 1844, will show that He is worthy of no blame. He be was known as the Father of the poor.

    Baha'u'llah's wife Ásíyih Khánum was known as the Mother of Consolation

    After 1844 that didn't change, but greater things were to unfold.

    Baha’u’llah, The Father of the Poor

    In the end Aupmanyav one has to consider how they go about determining the facts of any given situation. What is it, that our own heart wishes to find.

    Regards Tony
     
  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I see that this creation has a higher purpose and perfect for that purpose.

    It is all about the development of Soul, the growth of attributes. As such this world will always by sustained be Reward and Punishment, or as some may see as Karma.

    I see humanity will get better in attributes and peace will come, but I see that is just a beginning. History has shown that civilisations are raised, fall and obliterated. I see that cycle does not end In this creation. Reincarnation was most likely formed out of understandings about the cycles of birth and death.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Consorting is one thing, but once a Baha'i has put an OP out there, then the Baha'i has to defend or prove their position. Like for instance the thread about Progressive Revelation. So there's very little consorting, it's arguing and debating. And since Baha'is have contradictory interpretations of the traditional beliefs of the other religions, it going to lead to some antagonism between the different religions and the Baha'is. So, how should Baha'is be handling this, because what most of them are doing is not working.
     
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  14. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    As are all the other religions that went to and still go to interfaith stuff. You write as if it's something unique to the Baha'i faith.
     
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  15. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Tony, you can say all that again!
    That piece quoted looks like twaddle to me.

    Look at this para:-
    Baha’u’llah, definitely generous in prosperity, soon faced enormous adversity. Unjustly thrown into prison because of his new faith, Baha’u’llah and his family suffered tremendous loss very quickly, going from relative wealth to abject poverty literally overnight.

    Now, do you have a date for Bahauallah's prison sentence, the one quoted above? Let's start there.
    Ready when you are.........
     
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  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Tactful people know how NOT to start arguments. "If you don't want me to respond, don't come and sit on the bench with me and start telling me stuff, or asking questions." (From my university days and Christian evangelists in the lounges. I can't remember how many times I got up and left.)
     
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  17. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    CG, It takes two to tango. It depends what is brought to the table as to how the discussion will unfold.

    There is never any intent, but to positively consort. One can not control what may become a motive to pursue a more negative approach.

    I am always happy to see that in many things people can agree to disagree. I also see many of our perceptions have been moulded in historical thoughts. I see the challenge is to look outside the box.

    Christ says new eyes and new ears are needed.

    Jeremiah 5:21 ‘Hear this now, O foolish people without understanding, Who have eyes and see not, And who have ears and hear not:

    Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear"

    Regards Tony
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    It was September to December1852.

    Regards Tony
     
  19. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    I believe that is always part of your intent, but it looks to me like there is more to it than that. It looks to me like you’re trying to promote and defend some beliefs that you’re calling “the Baha’i Faith.” I have have no objection to you promoting and defending your beliefs, as long as the discussions are genuinely friendly, which I think they mostly are. I do object to you calling those beliefs “the Baha’i Faith” because it might create some confusion and misunderstandings about the worldwide community that is also called “the Baha’i Faith.”
     
  20. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    Do you mean “here” in this thread, or “here” in these forums? I don’t remember why I started posting in this thread, but I’m not here in these forums to defend my faith. I have tried sometimes to counteract what looks like misinformation to me. That might have been the reason why I started posting in this thread.

    As I said to Tony, I have no objection to you promoting and defending your beliefs as long the discussions are genuinely friendly, which I think they mostly are. I do object to people calling those beliefs “the Baha’i Faith,” because that might create confusion and misunderstandings about the worldwide community that is also called “the Baha’i Faith.” I’m not saying that for you to change it. I’m saying it because I’ve decided to try to have some conversations with you about disagreements between us.

    My response to reckless slander is to not respond to it at all.
    Responding to Criticism and Opposition on the Internet

    Of course, what looks reckless to me might not look reckless to you.
     
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