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The irony in the Baha'i faith

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe one problem is Baha’is thinking sometimes that all religions are one, and trying to find some way for that to be true, which it isn’t. Also sometimes people might think that “all religions are one” means “all religions are equal,” and that might always be what Baha’is mean when they say that.

The key here is that the Baha'i Teaching say that it is the Foundation that makes Religion One. Abdul'baha explained this in many talks in many ways.

Here are a couple;

"In further consideration of this subject, I wish you to be fair and reasonable in your judgment, setting aside all religious prejudices. We should earnestly seek and thoroughly investigate realities, recognizing that the purpose of the religion of God is the education of humanity and the unity and fellowship of mankind. Furthermore we will establish the point that the foundations of the religions of God are one foundation. This foundation is not multiple for it is reality itself. Reality does not admit of multiplicity although each of the divine religions is separable into two divisions. One concerns the world of morality and the ethical training of human nature. It is directed to the advancement of the world of humanity in general; it reveals and inculcates the knowledge of God and makes possible the discovery of the verities of life. This is ideal and spiritual teaching, the essential quality of divine religion and not subject to change or transformation. It is the one foundation of all the religions of God. Therefore the religions are essentially one and the same." Abdu'l-Baha : Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section

Also about Christ and what we can expect to see from a Valid Messenger,

"Christ ratified and proclaimed the foundation of the law of Moses. Muhammad and all the prophets have revoiced that same foundation of reality. Therefore the purposes and accomplishments of the divine messengers have been one and the same. They were the source of advancement to the body-politic and the cause of the honor and divine civilization of humanity the foundation of which is one and the same in every dispensation. It is evident then that the proofs of the validity and inspiration of a prophet of God are the deeds of beneficent accomplishment and greatness emanating from Him. If He proves to be instrumental in the elevation and betterment of mankind, He is undoubtedly a valid and heavenly messenger." Abdu'l-Baha : Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section

Regards Tony
 

arthra

Baha'i
Baha'is in relation to other Faiths generally don't attack or belittle them.

Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.”Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 138.

Baha'is are active in interfaith gatherings on an international scale and as local participants in Interfaith Councils.

Our Mission | parliamentofreligions.org

You can see how Baha'is participated in previous meetings of the Parliament:

https://news.bahai.org/story/739/

Parliament of World Religions: When Faiths First Came Together
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I disagree with saying that all religions are one, and trying to reconcile the beliefs that people associate with them.
I too do not believe in this and have never said that. Why would I put Hinduism or Buddhism in the same category as Zoroastrianism or Abrahamic religions (One God only religions. Mine has thousands)?
No, you don't understand then. A playwright is the more accurate energy.
The entire universe is a thought-form/play/drama of Brahman. So it doesn't make sense to say 'interfere' or 'doesn't interfere'.
When a human writes a play does it makes sense to say he interferes or doesn't interfere with the characters? It is all his thought creation.
The entire universe is a creative emanation of Brahman. Every movement is his thought/play/drama in an eternal now.
Then, if I may say so, Brahman has not written a very good play \ novel.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Isaiah 45:6 so that everyone will know there is ·no other God [none besides me]. From the ·east [rising of the sun] to ·the west [its setting] they will know I alone am the Lord. 7 I make the light and create the darkness. I bring ·peace [prosperity; wholeness; C Hebrew shalom], and I ·cause [create] ·troubles [disaster; calamity]. I, the Lord, do all these things. (Expanded Version)
Since your Allah SAYS, he is a being, natural or Supernatural. And he is an angry jealous God, Bible says that twice in Genesis and Duetronomy. He will punish even the third and the fourth generation of one who does not submit to him. Jesus asked this Allah to give the three cities a fate worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses and Mohammad did not ask anybody anything, they just beheaded all adult males and took the rest (women and children) as slaves.

Even Zoroasters first demand from King Vistasp was to put his enemies (the Kavis) to death. Forget about peace and wholeness, such actions do not being that about. Why are these Gods so blood hungry and insistent on their own worship and ready to send people who do not worship them to eternal hell or destroy them? What do they gain out of it? Even in the text quoted by you, the Christian God says the he "causes (creates) troubles (disaster; calamity)", perhaps the Satanists are right, God is the Satan.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
One aspect of liberal theology movements is to allegorise the story of God and make God Himself a symbol rather than an entity that truly exists. The same approach could be taken with the Baha’i writings. I personally don’t agree or see it that way but each to their own.
That too does not fit the Bahais. Bahais cannot take this approach, because it will render the claim of Bahaullah to be a "manifestion" of Allah as false, and no visit by the Maid of Heaven.
As such the Message of Baha'u'llah will fully explain one's faith, help them to understand what is from God and what has been added by man.
Without any evidence that Bahaullah was a mirror image of Allah or a replica of Allah (or whatever you call him) or Allah himself (Bahaullah said many things, that manifestations are no different from Allah), why should anybody take his word to be coming from Allah, when even existence of this entity is debated. What if what he claimed was wrong? The reported vision of the Maid of Heaven is hardly convincing.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Since your Allah SAYS, he is a being, natural or Supernatural. And he is an angry jealous God, Bible says that twice in Genesis and Duetronomy. He will punish even the third and the fourth generation of one who does not submit to him. Jesus asked this Allah to give the three cities a fate worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. Moses and Mohammad did not ask anybody anything, they just beheaded all adult males and took the rest (women and children) as slaves.

Even Zoroasters first demand from King Vistasp was to put his enemies (the Kavis) to death. Forget about peace and wholeness, such actions do not being that about. Why are these Gods so blood hungry and insistent on their own worship and ready to send people who do not worship them to eternal hell or destroy them? What do they gain out of it? Even in the text quoted by you, the Christian God says the he "causes (creates) troubles (disaster; calamity)", perhaps the Satanists are right, God is the Satan.

I see that is this creation, is created with a Balance and God tells us how not to tip the balance and what the results are if we do. Thus I see that fair and just warnings are given. You would most likely know it as Karma.

Stay well, regards Tony
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Do you mean God emanates in Hinduism?
Yeah, some do, some dont.For example, Ganesha and Kartikeya, sons of Shiva. They were born later. Even Mother Parvati is the daughter of the King of Mountains and was born (actually reborn. In her former avatara, she was Sati, the daughter of the king of humans, Daksha). Some of Lord Vishnus avataras were born in human form (Parashurama, Rama, Krishna and Buddha). Lord Hanuman also was born as a result of conjugal union between Kesari and Anjana, of the Vanara clan. Such things may happen to especially good people by grace of Gods and Goddesses. Of course, this is not what I believe, this is the Hindu theist belief.
It is evident then that the proofs of the validity and inspiration of a prophet of God are the deeds of beneficent accomplishment and greatness emanating from Him.
Talking about deeds of Moses, Abraham an Mohammad may lead to problems. Bahaullah also just talked and talked, wrote and wrote, dont think did much else.
Baha'is are active in interfaith gatherings on an international scale and as local participants in Interfaith Councils.
Ah, we too have many such organizations in India and many such meets are held. All religions do it for various purposes. Fishing or Ego.
Sarva Dharma Sammelan - Wikipedia
I see that is this creation, is created with a Balance and God tells us how not to tip the balance and what the results are if we do. Thus I see that fair and just warnings are given.
Had it not been better if there was no evil, only good. That is what all Gods \ Allahs want to achieve in the end. What stopped them from designing such a world right from the start?
 
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George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Then, if I may say so, Brahman has not written a very good play \ novel.
And I say it is an unfathomably wonderful multi-dimensional work so beyond the perspective grasp of one three-dimensional experiencing speck inside it.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Had it not been better if there was no evil, only good. That is what all Gods \ Allahs want to achieve in the end. What stopped them from designing such a world right from the start?
The supposed Christian God, which they claim is the one and same God of Israel, created everything perfect... or did he? He created Satan. Then Satan rebelled. Then Satan deceived Adam and Eve into sinning. Then this All-Knowing God is surprised that all this happened? Not if he is All-Knowing. That had to be his plan from the beginning. So no, he didn't make it perfect. He made it flawed. Then cursed Adam and Eve and all their descendants. But being the nice God that he is, he knew he was going to save humanity by sending his Son Jesus to be a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Great story, but Baha'is don't believe it. So for Baha'is, why did God create evil and suffering? To test fallible, gullible people? Well great, he succeeded in fooling a lot of people. So now he knows who is worthy to praise and worship him, he is going to send them to a spiritual world where everything is perfect? But, Baha'is have no hell, so where do the people that failed the test go? Do they have to retake the test over and over until they pass?

Hmmm? That would be a good idea. The ones that pass the test move on and the ones that fail go back and try again. Hmmm? What should we call such a plan?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Talking about deeds of Moses, Abraham an Mohammad may lead to problems. Bahaullah also just talked and talked, wrote and wrote, dont think did much else.

That is the choice we all have. Have we taken the time to read the stories of these people, from sources that are aimed at a fair and just rendition? Forme the stories of Moses and Muhammad show great deeds and justice in the times they lived.

As for Baha'u'llah, this is only recent history and any reading of His childhood and years prior to 1844, will show that He is worthy of no blame. He be was known as the Father of the poor.

Baha'u'llah's wife Ásíyih Khánum was known as the Mother of Consolation

After 1844 that didn't change, but greater things were to unfold.

Baha’u’llah, The Father of the Poor

In the end Aupmanyav one has to consider how they go about determining the facts of any given situation. What is it, that our own heart wishes to find.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Had it not been better if there was no evil, only good. That is what all Gods \ Allahs want to achieve in the end. What stopped them from designing such a world right from the start?

I see that this creation has a higher purpose and perfect for that purpose.

It is all about the development of Soul, the growth of attributes. As such this world will always by sustained be Reward and Punishment, or as some may see as Karma.

I see humanity will get better in attributes and peace will come, but I see that is just a beginning. History has shown that civilisations are raised, fall and obliterated. I see that cycle does not end In this creation. Reincarnation was most likely formed out of understandings about the cycles of birth and death.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.”Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 138.
Consorting is one thing, but once a Baha'i has put an OP out there, then the Baha'i has to defend or prove their position. Like for instance the thread about Progressive Revelation. So there's very little consorting, it's arguing and debating. And since Baha'is have contradictory interpretations of the traditional beliefs of the other religions, it going to lead to some antagonism between the different religions and the Baha'is. So, how should Baha'is be handling this, because what most of them are doing is not working.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Baha'is are active in interfaith gatherings on an international scale and as local participants in Interfaith Councils.

As are all the other religions that went to and still go to interfaith stuff. You write as if it's something unique to the Baha'i faith.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Baha’u’llah, The Father of the Poor

In the end Aupmanyav one has to consider how they go about determining the facts of any given situation. What is it, that our own heart wishes to find.

Regards Tony

Tony, you can say all that again!
That piece quoted looks like twaddle to me.

Look at this para:-
Baha’u’llah, definitely generous in prosperity, soon faced enormous adversity. Unjustly thrown into prison because of his new faith, Baha’u’llah and his family suffered tremendous loss very quickly, going from relative wealth to abject poverty literally overnight.

Now, do you have a date for Bahauallah's prison sentence, the one quoted above? Let's start there.
Ready when you are.........
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Consorting is one thing, but once a Baha'i has put an OP out there, then the Baha'i has to defend or prove their position. Like for instance the thread about Progressive Revelation. So there's very little consorting, it's arguing and debating. And since Baha'is have contradictory interpretations of the traditional beliefs of the other religions, it going to lead to some antagonism between the different religions and the Baha'is. So, how should Baha'is be handling this, because what most of them are doing is not working.

Tactful people know how NOT to start arguments. "If you don't want me to respond, don't come and sit on the bench with me and start telling me stuff, or asking questions." (From my university days and Christian evangelists in the lounges. I can't remember how many times I got up and left.)
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Consorting is one thing, but once a Baha'i has put an OP out there, then the Baha'i has to defend or prove their position. Like for instance the thread about Progressive Revelation. So there's very little consorting, it's arguing and debating. And since Baha'is have contradictory interpretations of the traditional beliefs of

CG, It takes two to tango. It depends what is brought to the table as to how the discussion will unfold.

There is never any intent, but to positively consort. One can not control what may become a motive to pursue a more negative approach.

I am always happy to see that in many things people can agree to disagree. I also see many of our perceptions have been moulded in historical thoughts. I see the challenge is to look outside the box.

Christ says new eyes and new ears are needed.

Jeremiah 5:21 ‘Hear this now, O foolish people without understanding, Who have eyes and see not, And who have ears and hear not:

Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear"

Regards Tony
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
There is never any intent, but to positively consort.
I believe that is always part of your intent, but it looks to me like there is more to it than that. It looks to me like you’re trying to promote and defend some beliefs that you’re calling “the Baha’i Faith.” I have have no objection to you promoting and defending your beliefs, as long as the discussions are genuinely friendly, which I think they mostly are. I do object to you calling those beliefs “the Baha’i Faith” because it might create some confusion and misunderstandings about the worldwide community that is also called “the Baha’i Faith.”
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I'm here to defend my faith from slander and misinformation. As far as I can see so too are the Baha'i's here.
Do you mean “here” in this thread, or “here” in these forums? I don’t remember why I started posting in this thread, but I’m not here in these forums to defend my faith. I have tried sometimes to counteract what looks like misinformation to me. That might have been the reason why I started posting in this thread.

As I said to Tony, I have no objection to you promoting and defending your beliefs as long the discussions are genuinely friendly, which I think they mostly are. I do object to people calling those beliefs “the Baha’i Faith,” because that might create confusion and misunderstandings about the worldwide community that is also called “the Baha’i Faith.” I’m not saying that for you to change it. I’m saying it because I’ve decided to try to have some conversations with you about disagreements between us.

My response to reckless slander is to not respond to it at all.
Under most circumstances, it would seem worse than futile for a Bahá’í to attempt to defend the institutions or members of the Faith from the kind of reckless slander that has become an all too common feature of the moral deterioration of contemporary society, and that tends to characterize much of the language of the Faith’s current critics.
Responding to Criticism and Opposition on the Internet

Of course, what looks reckless to me might not look reckless to you.
 
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