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Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by SalixIncendium, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Resident Hermit
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    "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end." - Semisonic

    "Everything that has a beginning has an end..." - The Oracle


    It is generally agreed upon both in scripture and in science that there is a beginning (no, this thread isn't about EvC) and that there will be an end. The human race began and like many other species, will ultimately become extinct.

    It is commonly known in the scientific community that the sun will become a red giant and will ultimately envelop the earth. But I think it's quite likely that the human race will become extinct long before this occurs.

    Scientifically or religiously, how do you think will we meet our end? What lies beyond?
     
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  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    We will all die. We're just flemzy mortals who some of us take for granted that fact until something serious happens and a light flashes maybe in teen or young adult we dont live forever. I think the earth changing seasons, etc will someday kill us all. The more I understand death, the more I realize religon is for the living not for the dying.

    I dont see any other way we would go all at one time. If we dont kill ourselves in the mean time, Mother Nature will.
     
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  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    The end is just another beginning. We will meet both those times in a blink of an eye and the capacity of mind that our choices and efforts has raised us to, will become the platform to our continue progress, in and through all the worlds of God.

    Regards Tony
     
  4. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    "O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help."

    "Behold, I make all things new."

    Jesus is a new beginning.

    "who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;"
     
  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Sounds logical.
    Only, I believe that if everything that had a beginning, has an end, then something is, that never began, because nothing can begin without something.

    Therefore, if the beginning - what never began - is able to sustain what it began, then it is possible that what had a beginning, can also not have an end, because the beginning, which has no end, is sustaining it, or rejuvenating it.

    For example, it is known that our cells keep "repairing" themselves, and it's not understood why there seems to be a cut off point.
    So what if the answer lies in the fact that the energy, or force that rejuvenates the cell has been withdrawn.

    Put simply, I believe that the beginning - God - who has no end, created everything, which would all come to their end, but for his sustaining them.
    That's why angels don't come to an end.
    God will give immortality to faithful ones who go to his realm, and sustain and rejuvenate those righteous one he will give the earth as a possession, and sustain and rejuvenate the earth itself, and stars - and our sun.
    Once that regenerating energy/force/spirit, is operating within any form of matter, it will not end.

    This I firmly believe.
     
  6. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Not necessarily.

    More than quite likely. It will become extinct.

    I'll probably die in bed of old age---it runs in the family.

    Ultimately, unless humanity creates some kind of extinction event I can see the earth naturally running out of resources to support human life. Past that of course is the Sun's increasing radiation that will ultimately extinguish all life, followed by the Sun's expansion that will obliterate the earth. From there is the death of the universe itself.

    What lies beyond? Some say they know. They don't. They only believe.

    .

    .
     
    #6 Skwim, Oct 7, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  7. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Man is a species that cannot flow with nature
    We will use up the resources and misuse many other

    the imbalance will kill us

    if the earth can still have life upon it.....the dominant species that survives....us
    will then rule over the earth
     
  8. ObjectOfMercy

    ObjectOfMercy Member

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    For God's people, a new heaven and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness. For the reprobate, eternal torments as is just and right...

    Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    2 Peter 3
    13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    Revelation 21
    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
     
  9. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Active Member

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    It can't be new forever. I believe this suggest a preternity.
     
  10. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    My best thought is that before the sun becomes a red giant humanity will have evolved beyond its physical stage of existence.
     
  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    It can be known, as all knowledge does not need material proofs.

    It can be said, if a Jesus Christ, a Muhammad, a Bab and Baha'ullah walked this earth, then what they said, is the greatest proof it exists, it comes from them.

    Regards Tony
     
  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity holy roly poly
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    There are too many people with bunkers for human life to end, and we understand Physics too well. Calculus is equal to any magic imagined in ages past. Also when things get tough we get savage. People have survived floating alone at sea for days and nights in terror and in hope. The have survived in caves, in dungeons and in deserts. People survive. It is not even a question, for me, whether there will be humans when the sun envelopes this old Earth.

    Leaving Earth would multiply the expectation. If people leave Earth and learn to stay away then humans will likely be around even after the Sun envelopes the Earth. Instead of 5 billion years there would be many times that before the last human died.
     
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  13. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I believe that physically if we can’t become independent of our solar system we will either fry in the sun or freeze in the depths of space if we can escape the exploding sun.

    After this the universe will continue on and new life will probably evolve somewhere else in the universe.

    As far as what will happen once the entire universe is due to come to an end, it is simply too far into the distant future for me to speculate on what will happen.
     
  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Very restricted list. What about Zoroaster, Mahavira, Nanak and so many in Hinduism (Buddha included). Also Joseph Smith and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. You forgot the Later Saints, Mahdi! Did not even add an 'etc.' :)
    Easy Salix, absolutely easy. Science or religion cannot differ on truth - Ultimate fate of the universe - Wikipedia
    Don't be too sure of it - Quantum Mechanics. Do you think what you believe is the beginning and end of knowledge?
     
    #14 Aupmanyav, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    The end can, be because the veil of names. :D

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    It's like having a new car. You wear down the car by too much driving. While you can fix the car up, one day it would have too many miles and start to collapse. Things are born, age, wear out, and die. Its the wear and tear we put on our bodies.

    Our body can only rejuvenate but so long. If our body was meant to live we would not have a hundred year cut off point.

    As for what sustains life, its energy. Once we die energy has nothing left to sustain. Energy isnt something that has an origin. It doesn't create. It sustains, forms, shapes, decreases when we die out, increase when we take care of our bodies (say exercise).

    Some call energy god since its a sustainer without origin. Humans put labels and define it to where life makes sense to them. Spirit is the Motion of energy. Without energy/movement/spirit no life. This is where our emotions and spirituality come from and develops. Our soul is what we "think" our bodies are disattached to and is awareness itself. Its what we experience when we meditate. It's conciousness.

    God/energy/spirit is the sustainer. As for him being a person, have emotions, and such, that sounds far fetched. Energy doesn't create (doesn't begin) but forms and sustains.

    How is god the beginning when It has no beginning? By its nature, it's just the energy/spark of life. By what means and where do you find there is anymore to this spark than the nature and its purpose?
     
  17. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    If we don't run out of water and food first, probably another killer asteroid,
     
  18. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    I trust our ability to survive the death of Earth. If humans are good at anything, it's being smart enough to invent things and not do something stupid to drive ourselves to extinction.

    If you told people five hundred years ago that we were going to invent vehicles that could travel on land twice as fast as the swiftest horse, impossibly large ships made entirely out of steel that could float and sail the world's oceans, vehicles that could fly through the sky faster than the speed of sound or carry hundreds of people across the sea in mere hours, and create rockets that could take men to the moon and back, they would have probably laughed. Heck, two hundred years ago the very idea of computers, the Internet and smartphones would have seemed like absolute sorcery. Technological progress has been advancing at close to exponential speeds. I see no reason for that trend to not provide us with the means to escape our solar system, colonize other worlds, and maybe even shift Earth's orbit.
     
  19. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Logically, what is true here and now cannot become untrue. And what is untrue cannot become true.
     
  20. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So, just what form does your knowledge of after death existence take?

    Why? Why does what they say become truth or that the afterlife exists, simply because they may have "walked the earth"?

    .



    .
     
    #20 Skwim, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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