Superstition vs. Faith

[Norman Beall]

If i was to know or understand Gods thoughts, i would have to be at his level of wisdom. I am not, so how can i speak of what Gods natur of thinking is?

I have so much more to realize and understand about my own being that trying to understand the full aspect of Allah would only lead me to more confusion

wisdom is wisdom. Throughout all existence and time, all individuals of all life forms that have an understanding of wisdom all think alike.

God is a being of wisdom. I have a proper understanding of wisdom. God and i share the same nature of thought, as all lovers of wisdom do.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I know that many mainstream muslims from sunni or shia do look at sufi practitioners as something non muslim og non islam, or maybe superstitious that I can not do anything about, people can think what they want.
I think you can find people in every religion who look down on others from other religions. My teacher is very strict on this so we do not speak bad about others and focus on our own difficulties so we can become more pure every day.

Thank you for your input, as always!

I think it's an easy trap for anyone to fall in, honestly. It's easy for us to delude ourselves into thinking we are better than others... In reality, the only things we are "better" than are the straw man charicatures of people we build in our own minds. We don't understand nearly as much as we think we do... Especially when it comes to others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thank you for your input, as always!

I think it's an easy trap for anyone to fall in, honestly. It's easy for us to delude ourselves into thinking we are better than others... In reality, the only things we are "better" than are the straw man charicatures of people we build in our own minds. We don't understand nearly as much as we think we do... Especially when it comes to others.

Very welcome @SigurdReginson i can only speak from my understanding, and the older i get the more I understand how little I know.

 

[SigurdReginson]

One persons faith is another persons superstition. From a neutral perspective you should think the same since you are not seeking which one is what!

I try. Sometimes I can fall victum to my own ignorance, though.

I think the difficulty is more in discussing these concepts with others, though... They seem to have their own understandings. As you say, one person's religion is another person's superstition!

 

[Norman Beall]

Very welcome @SigurdReginson i can only speak from my understanding, and the older i get the more I understand how little I know.

Did you know that by understanding the archer in the holy bible is to understand how islam came to be? If one does not understand how to follow the archer in the holy bible to come to know islam, one doesn't not understand what islam is about at all.

 

[Norman Beall]

Very welcome @SigurdReginson i can only speak from my understanding, and the older i get the more I understand how little I know.

Abraham and Ishmael raised the foundations of the temple of islam, as the quran says. without understanding how to follow the archer from abraham and ishmael, one is without understanding of the noble quran altogether.

The quran talks about not being pig-headed, which has nothing to do with eating ham.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You know, I was going to write a different thread, but the more I wrote, the more I noticed that I was conflating superstion and faith. What, exactly, is the difference though?

If I ask god to help me, how is that different than asking my house elf to help me? Does it matter if I think angels are watching over my loved ones vs. if my ancestors watch over them? If I cast out demons from a suspected witch, how is it different if I do it in the name of jesus than if I do it using folk magic?

If I were a Christian still, I would say that the main defining factor is that belief in the god of the bible would be an example of faith, while everything else that's a supernatural belief is based on things outside of that and is of the world, and therefore superstitious. Do you feel the same? Are other religions practicing faith or superstition? Is the main factor in the veneration of gods? If so, would the belief in gods be faith, while the belief in magic be superstitious? What if your religion allowed for the existance of magic? Even the bible talks of magic, so I don't know... The whole thing is very confusing for me.

They all seem to be rooted in the supernatural, so where is this split between the two, precisely? Can they, and do both faith and superstition coexist?

I know this topic has been done before in the past... but the answers are still vague. I feel like it's hard to have a conversation about things related to the topic if the topic isn't settled first. I guess I'm just looking for something more concrete and definite. Maybe we can all reach some kind of concensus, finally.

Faith must be attained through sound reason not just blind faith which is superstition. Many of the religious texts are symbolic but if they be interpreted literally, the mind cannot accept them. For example, if we say that Satan is a symbol for the lower, selfish nature of man or ego, it makes perfect sense, but if we say there is a mythical being which tempts us that is superstition.

Another superstition is the resurrection. All bodies die and then decay including Christ’s. This is a scientific proven fact. If we say His physical body arose that is nonsense. But if we say the Spirit of Christ lives on then that is more according to reason and science.

Religion, shorn of reason and science becomes blind faith. This is my understanding.

 

[Norman Beall]

I have my understanding of islam through sufi teaching, what Christianity say about Islam i have little knowledge about.
Muhammed got Allahs teaching through an Angel over many years, and the hidden teaching are often spoken about in sufi texts.

No human gets to have their own understanding of islam. God rules.

 

[sun rise]

I was conflating superstion and faith. What, exactly, is the difference though?

This is an interesting question.

On one hand we have the classic 'cargo cult' phenomenon where people built straw airplanes so that real ones would come back and deliver goodies. I'd call that superstition.

On another hand, what I call my faith is what you might call my superstition. Certainly atheists have that tendency.

The only differentiating factor I can see is the use of magic. If I build a replica of a plane expecting a real one to arrive, I'm using a magic ritual. I've called this thinking of divinity as a piñata that one can "whack" with prayer and ritual to bring about goodies of all sorts.

Faith by contrast might be thought of as recognizing that Divinity exists and that we should be ready to work toward living our lives in positive ways out of love for Divinity.

For Christians this is related to the 2nd greatest commandment. For Jews perhaps to the mitzvah of repairing the world. I'm not sure about other religions but I'm guessing that for Muslims it is accepting what happens as the will of Allah.

It may be that what used to be faith has become superstition as we've matured as a species (I know I know - maturity is hard and slow).

 

[Spirit of Light]

No human gets to have their own understanding of islam. God rules.

I will follow the guidance of my teacher and one day i might have all the answers to my questions i dont put Allah under questions, but to realize deeper wisdom questions is needed, otherwise it's just blind faith.

 

[Norman Beall]

I will follow the guidance of my teacher and one day i might have all the answers to my questions i dont put Allah under questions, but to realize deeper wisdom questions is needed, otherwise it's just blind faith.

Life is my teacher, my guide to all truth, so that i need not any man teach me. Reality itself is God's work.

Also, no such thing as deeper wisdom. One either has a proper understanding of wisdom, or they do not.

God is a being of wisdom. I have a proper understanding of wisdom. God's thoughts are not my thoughts, but we do think alike.

 

[Vinayaka]

You know, I was going to write a different thread, but the more I wrote, the more I noticed that I was conflating superstion and faith. What, exactly, is the difference though?

If I ask god to help me, how is that different than asking my house elf to help me? Does it matter if I think angels are watching over my loved ones vs. if my ancestors watch over them? If I cast out demons from a suspected witch, how is it different if I do it in the name of jesus than if I do it using folk magic?

If I were a Christian still, I would say that the main defining factor is that belief in the god of the bible would be an example of faith, while everything else that's a supernatural belief is based on things outside of that and is of the world, and therefore superstitious. Do you feel the same? Are other religions practicing faith or superstition? Is the main factor in the veneration of gods? If so, would the belief in gods be faith, while the belief in magic be superstitious? What if your religion allowed for the existance of magic? Even the bible talks of magic, so I don't know... The whole thing is very confusing for me.

They all seem to be rooted in the supernatural, so where is this split between the two, precisely? Can they, and do both faith and superstition coexist?

I know this topic has been done before in the past... but the answers are still vague. I feel like it's hard to have a conversation about things related to the topic if the topic isn't settled first. I guess I'm just looking for something more concrete and definite. Maybe we can all reach some kind of concensus, finally.

I think each word expresses a POV on an unexplained phenomena, belief in 'something'. The person who thinks it's valid or true calls it their faith, and the person who doesn't calls it superstition.

So from either the POV, the individual is only expressing how they see it, and there is no 'right' or 'wrong', only the POV.
One (superstition) is more often used pejoratively.

 

[ecco]

...superstition and faith. What, exactly, is the difference though?

If by faith, you mean faith in a god, then there is no difference.

 

[ecco]

The "evidence" i have about Allah can not be shown to others, because the answers i have recieved is personal and may not mean anything to others.

God is not a personal God. I am certain.

Hmm.

 

[Norman Beall]

Hmm.

God, being a being of knowledge, is a being of purely objective thought. Nothing purely objective is of a personal nature, ergo God is not a personal God. Einsteinian spinozist.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You know, I was going to write a different thread, but the more I wrote, the more I noticed that I was conflating superstion and faith. What, exactly, is the difference though?

If I ask god to help me, how is that different than asking my house elf to help me? Does it matter if I think angels are watching over my loved ones vs. if my ancestors watch over them? If I cast out demons from a suspected witch, how is it different if I do it in the name of jesus than if I do it using folk magic?

If I were a Christian still, I would say that the main defining factor is that belief in the god of the bible would be an example of faith, while everything else that's a supernatural belief is based on things outside of that and is of the world, and therefore superstitious. Do you feel the same? Are other religions practicing faith or superstition? Is the main factor in the veneration of gods? If so, would the belief in gods be faith, while the belief in magic be superstitious? What if your religion allowed for the existance of magic? Even the bible talks of magic, so I don't know... The whole thing is very confusing for me.

They all seem to be rooted in the supernatural, so where is this split between the two, precisely? Can they, and do both faith and superstition coexist?

I know this topic has been done before in the past... but the answers are still vague. I feel like it's hard to have a conversation about things related to the topic if the topic isn't settled first. I guess I'm just looking for something more concrete and definite. Maybe we can all reach some kind of concensus, finally.

Blind faith leads to superstitious. A faith, which is logical, and based on independent investigation of truth, is not superstitious. Superstitious beliefs contradict logic and science.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hmm.

I not saying Allah is my personal God that others do not have access to how i practice and how my understanding arise is a part of the personal practice through my teacher

 

[Norman Beall]

I not saying Allah is my personal God that others do not have access to how i practice and how my understanding arise is a part of the personal practice through my teacher

Again, Life is my teacher, my guide to all truth, so that i need not any man teach me. I do not practice being real, I AM real.

 

[firedragon]

I try. Sometimes I can fall victum to my own ignorance, though.

I think the difficulty is more in discussing these concepts with others, though... They seem to have their own understandings. As you say, one person's religion is another person's superstition!

The problem with many people who like to take the rational approach to things or at least believe that they wish to take the rational approach, or maybe even the "intellectual" approach is that they tend to put everyone else in one group and enjoy the pun of dispute between them. Though think it is, I doubt that is an intellectual approach, but rather a colonial style divide and conquer approach.

In my opinion that is not a rational approach, but a safe yet pleasurable approach. Honestly, that's the reason I highly respect scholars and the scholarly approach and not the intellectuals and the intellectual approach who should mostly be tagged pseudo.

That is why I like to urge thinking atheists or anyone who questions like you did to take the scholarly approach even if it takes a little bit of time. If there are two types of superstitions, let's say those famous "flying tea-cup" and the "Spaghetti Monster", take that scholarly approach to both rather than let them fight with each other and enjoy the show.

Peace.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Again, Life is my teacher, my guide to all truth, so that i need not any man teach me. I do not practice being real, I AM real.

Different paths different answers