Superstition vs. Faith

[McBell]

it's wrong. what i said is correct.

Bold empty claim.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What is taught as faith isn't actually faith at all. believers have dictionary faith, not religilous faith.

Faith is a measure that comes by hearing. Faith is the measure of substance and evidence one has for the words of a story.

Those with much substance and evidence for their story are those with much faith.

Those with only a story are faithless.

Being that God has substance and evidence for his every word, being that he spoke his holy name which caused the big bang of which the harmonic is found in the cmbr, God is faithful.

Psa 62 11 kjv God hath spoken once, twice have i heard this, that power belongeth to God.

My answer isn't put in concrete from a life in religion my understanding of faith may well be different than others understanding
The "evidence" i have about Allah can not be shown to others, because the answers i have recieved is personal and may not mean anything to others.

 

[Norman Beall]

Bold empty claim.

not empty at all. it's about one having evidence vs not. it's a dichotomy, a universally immutable object of logic.

 

[Norman Beall]

My answer isn't put in concrete from a life in religion my understanding of faith may well be different than others understanding
The "evidence" i have about Allah can not be shown to others, because the answers i have recieved is personal and may not mean anything to others.

How about you explain to me how God thinks. God is not a personal God. I am certain.

 

[Secret Chief]

Does faith imply something about the future, that superstition does not?

 

[SigurdReginson]

Don't take anything i've said personally. i never said you say you know things you don't actually know, i'm just pointing that out as a rule of wisdom. Also, why should you need to admit you're wrong on anything? Shouldn't you just say you don't know if you don't actually know?

And yes, in fact i do know God. God is a being of wisdom. God's thoughts are not my thoughts, but we do think alike.

Oh, I don't ever take anything personally... I'm just trying to see where you are going with things.

So anyways! Back on topic. You're saying that faith requires wisdom, and superstition exists in the absense of it. Ok. What exactly is this "wisdom?" Who decides what is wise? How do we test this wisdom to see if it's true? Can there be two very different, even opposite, versions of wisdom that exist that are both correct?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hmmm... I think to some people it is. What about superstition? What does that mean to you?

I have little experience with superstition but it could be that non believers would call religious belief superstition because they do not have the "connection" with the teaching, or that they do not gain the inner wisdom from God, since they do not practice to recieve it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

How about you explain to me how God thinks. God is not a personal God. I am certain.

If i knew Gods thoughts i would be God, i am not God

 

[Norman Beall]

Oh, I don't ever take anything personally... I'm just trying to see where you are going with things.

So anyways! Back on topic. You're saying that faith requires wisdom, and superstition exists in the absense of it. Ok. What exactly is this "wisdom?" Who decides what is wise? How do we test this wisdom to see if it's true? Can there be two very different, even opposite, versions of wisdom that exist that are both correct?

One that is wise properly separates things they know, things they do not know, and opinion. they also hold belief and emotion as irrelevant altogether. This is a nature of intellect that is testable. Only one that has a proper understanding of wisdom is one with discernment of the scriptures..

For example, the story of christ with peter and malchus is nothing but an example of an ad hominem attack against malchus on peter's part. john 18 10

 

[Norman Beall]

I have little experience with superstition but it could be that non believers would call religious belief superstition because they do not have the "connection" with the teaching, or that they do not gain the inner wisdom from God, since they do not practice to recieve it.

religious belief is superstition, since there's no such thing. religion demands understanding, knowledge. belief plays no role.

 

[Norman Beall]

If i knew Gods thoughts i would be God, i am not God

never asked what God's thoughts are. asked about his nature of thought.

 

[Quintessence]

If I ask god to help me, how is that different than asking my house elf to help me? Does it matter if I think angels are watching over my loved ones vs. if my ancestors watch over them? If I cast out demons from a suspected witch, how is it different if I do it in the name of jesus than if I do it using folk magic?

To answer this question, some more questions: if you ask your mother to help you, how is that different from asking your supervisor at work to help you? Does it matter if you think your brother is looking out for you versus your neighbor down the street? If you cast out demons, how is it different if you do that by watching internet videos versus visiting a therapist? Would answers to these questions be the identical for you and every other human on the planet?

I'll toss a word out here that's very important to the answers: relationships.

This just gets at one dimension of what you're asking about, but it's probably the central one because cultural teachings very much stem from the relationships that culture has historically had or wishes to continue cultivating in its members as ideas or practices. In most respects "superstition" is a pejorative way of referencing cultural relationships one's own culture doesn't share, at least in the context of what we're discussing here. The term has other usages.

 

[Spirit of Light]

never asked what God's thoughts are. asked about his nature of thought.

In my understanding, to teach human beings a way back to him.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I have little experience with superstition but it could be that non believers would call religious belief superstition because they do not have the "connection" with the teaching,

'

I think that's interesting. Do you think folks from those practices might view your bliefs as superstitious? That might kind of coincide with @Mestemia's initial thoughts that "Superstition" itself is a label that one might apply to those who practice beliefs that are outside of the social norm. To me, it might even be how one regards the beliefs of others that are even outside of their realm of belief in things they, themselves, understand as true.

or that they do not gain the inner wisdom from God, since they do not practice to recieve it.

Hmmm... I wonder if that wisdom is viewed as "lesser" in that case. I also wonder if that would be a common thought process for Abrahamic believers, since I believed something similar as a Christian. I certainly did look down upon folks outside of my beliefs.

I'm not saying you do that, of course! You are a very open minded person who is very respectful towards people, and I don't ever see you as someone who thinks of themselves as better than anyone else.

But I do wonder if the tendancy is there in religious practice as a whole? Does this separation of "Faith" and "Superstition" allow for the cultivation of an elitist mindset? An otherization of things one doesn't know or understand very well?

 

[Marcion]

Faith is the religious duty to harbour sanctioned (officially acknowledged) superstitions and to ignore its conflicts with your own rationality.

 

[Norman Beall]

In my understanding, to teach human beings a way back to him.

Didn't ask that either. What is true is only one that can explain how God thinks, that shares God's nature of thought, is one that could possibly know him.

If one does not know how God thinks and share his nature of thought, you can know with certainty that one does not know God.

 

[Spirit of Light]

'

I think that's interesting. Do you think folks from those practices might view your bliefs as superstitious? That might kind of coincide with @Mestemia's initial thoughts that "Superstition" itself is a label that one might apply to those who practice beliefs that are outside of the social norm. To me, it might even be how one regards the beliefs of others that are even outside of their realm of belief in things they, themselves, understand as true.



Hmmm... I wonder if that wisdom is viewed as "lesser" in that case. I also wonder if that would be a common thought process for Abrahamic believers, since I believed something similar as a Christian. I certainly did look down upon folks outside of my beliefs.

I'm not saying you do that, of course! You are a very open minded person who is very respectful towards people, and I don't ever see you as someone who thinks of themselves as better than anyone else.

But I do wonder if the tendancy is there in religious practice as a whole? Does this separation of "Faith" and "Superstition" allow for the cultivation of an elitist mindset? An otherization of things one doesn't know or understand very well?

I know that many mainstream muslims from sunni or shia do look at sufi practitioners as something non muslim og non islam, or maybe superstitious that I can not do anything about, people can think what they want.
I think you can find people in every religion who look down on others from other religions. My teacher is very strict on this so we do not speak bad about others and focus on our own difficulties so we can become more pure every day.

 

[SigurdReginson]

To answer this question, some more questions: if you ask your mother to help you, how is that different from asking your supervisor at work to help you? Does it matter if you think your brother is looking out for you versus your neighbor down the street? If you cast out demons, how is it different if you do that by watching internet videos versus visiting a therapist? Would answers to these questions be the identical for you and every other human on the planet?

I'll toss a word out here that's very important to the answers: relationships.

This just gets at one dimension of what you're asking about, but it's probably the central one because cultural teachings very much stem from the relationships that culture has historically had or wishes to continue cultivating in its members as ideas or practices. In most respects "superstition" is a pejorative way of referencing cultural relationships one's own culture doesn't share, at least in the context of what we're discussing here. The term has other usages.

Whoa... You just expanded this to something much greater... If you wanted to start a whole new thread on this topic, I'd love to see where it goes.

I think you're right, though. "Superstition" is a prejorative term that I don't think anyone has ever used in a positive light. It's an effective way in dismissing the understandings of others, while simultaniously making yourself seem to have some kind of higher understanding.

Stepping on the necks of those who one would think themselves to be above...

 

[Spirit of Light]

Didn't ask that either. What is true is only one that can explain how God thinks, that shares God's nature of thought, is one that could possibly know him.

If one does not know how God thinks and share his nature of thought, you can know with certainty that one does not know God.

If i was to know or understand Gods thoughts, i would have to be at his level of wisdom. I am not, so how can i speak of what Gods natur of thinking is?

I have so much more to realize and understand about my own being that trying to understand the full aspect of Allah would only lead me to more confusion

 

[firedragon]

You know, I was going to write a different thread, but the more I wrote, the more I noticed that I was conflating superstion and faith. What, exactly, is the difference though?

If I ask god to help me, how is that different than asking my house elf to help me? Does it matter if I think angels are watching over my loved ones vs. if my ancestors watch over them? If I cast out demons from a suspected witch, how is it different if I do it in the name of jesus than if I do it using folk magic?

If I were a Christian still, I would say that the main defining factor is that belief in the god of the bible would be an example of faith, while everything else that's a supernatural belief is based on things outside of that and is of the world, and therefore superstitious. Do you feel the same? Are other religions practicing faith or superstition? Is the main factor in the veneration of gods? If so, would the belief in gods be faith, while the belief in magic be superstitious? What if your religion allowed for the existance of magic? Even the bible talks of magic, so I don't know... The whole thing is very confusing for me.

They all seem to be rooted in the supernatural, so where is this split between the two, precisely? Can they, and do both faith and superstition coexist?

I know this topic has been done before in the past... but the answers are still vague. I feel like it's hard to have a conversation about things related to the topic if the topic isn't settled first. I guess I'm just looking for something more concrete and definite. Maybe we can all reach some kind of concensus, finally.

One persons faith is another persons superstition. From a neutral perspective you should think the same since you are not seeking which one is what!