Soldiers are....Heroes ??

[Me Myself]

Out of all the people that could be classified as a Hero we choose.. every soldier...??? I am NOT saying that some Soldiers are not Heroic, of course they are. I still don't believe in what a Soldier symbolizes though.

To that I can agree.

 

[Orias]

But the soldiers are the bloodthirsty criminals they're defending against!

Some can be. Depends on whose side you're on.

 

[Storm]

Its as if everybody just wants attention and is replying just to have their say in things. Its as if everything I am saying you guys are taking completely litteral..you mean there are soldiers that have gone to University..no wayy!! ?

Why are you replying, if not to have your say?

 

[Caladan]

If I'm to go by some of the posts here then I should believe that the Canadian and American armed forces are ranked with social degenerates. I don't think this thread ever meant to discuss a glorification complex, 'R34L1TY' simply has an ax to grind.
As a veteran I never expected anyone in my society to treat me as a hero, and to be honest, I don't think anyone ever treated me as one.
In Israel every man or woman who are aged 18 get drafted, so the military is one stage along the way. To be honest, while my instincts are to question some of the posts here that paint North American soldiers as screw ups, especially after getting to know some American veterans who seemed to be pretty competent... I'll let the other forum members shed more light on the subject.
As I said on my other post which has been ignored by 'R34L1TY'. All of my army team members went to the university, all of them have decent careers. Some of the guys who serve with me in reserves hold PhDs in robotics, computer science, maritime engineering and they certainly provide a much better discussion than this one.

I'm all for discussing whether soldiers should be idealized or not, get benefits or not. But seems that what we are discussing is whether soldiers can even finish high school. So which is it? Is the situation that bad over there?
How do all these ignorant rejects operate state of the art technology, read maps, and function in teams?

 

[R34L1TY]

First off, I stated my opinion on the Military. I know you can get a wonderful career out of being involved in the Military. There are many career paths, paid education incentives, you can travel the world and be exposed to different Cultures. However, what I said about soldiers while referencing them as if they were degenerates.. it was ignorant. I meant it more so in the sense that if you can't make it in the real world..join the military. And this is true. I am not saying that people only join the Military because they can't get their **** together. What I should have said is something like this;

I am looking at this idea as an elitist, I know that. But I am also looking at this as "why do we even need soldiers? point of view.


"Goofed off in highschool, joins military, gets shipped to a broken Country, walks around with a gun, might kill something or someone , comes back a hero. "

"Studious in Highschool, dedicates a 1/10th of their life to University, creates new drug to treat Alzhemers.. is unknown /or saves patients daily in the Emergency Room..etc..."

That is obviously a generalization but from my perspective and experience with people involved in the Military, that is how I view the majority of soldiers. Gratification shouldn't be your motive to do a career but when you see the stupidity of Civilization, it creeps under your skin.

What a beautiful sight^ young men as paraplegics. Isn't war just beautiful..

 

[Dingbat]

If I'm to go by some of the posts here then I should believe that the Canadian and American armed forces are ranked with social degenerates. I don't think this thread ever meant to discuss a glorification complex, 'R34L1TY' simply has an ax to grind.
As a veteran I never expected anyone in my society to treat me as a hero, and to be honest, I don't think anyone ever treated me as one.
In Israel every man or woman who are aged 18 get drafted, so the military is one stage along the way. To be honest, while my instincts are to question some of the posts here that paint North American soldiers as screw ups, especially after getting to know some American veterans who seemed to be pretty competent... I'll let the other forum members shed more light on the subject.
As I said on my other post which has been ignored by 'R34L1TY'. All of my army team members went to the university, all of them have decent careers. Some of the guys who serve with me in reserves hold PhDs in robotics, computer science, maritime engineering and they certainly provide a much better discussion than this one.

I'm all for discussing whether soldiers should be idealized or not, get benefits or not. But seems that what we are discussing is whether soldiers can even finish high school. So which is it? Is the situation that bad over there?
How do all these ignorant rejects operate state of the art technology, read maps, and function in teams?

The All Volunteer Army in the USA hasn't drawn a very stellar crowd to be honest. Some are simply kids from the inner-city, rural areas, and all around poor trying to scratch out a living and education. Those are not the problems IMHO.

Then you have the gung-ho patriots that usually froth at the mouth with racism and are excited to kill <insert arab/muslim epithet here> Southern Utah is full of this demographic and they openly say these derogatory terms while discussing enlistment and killing Arabs. Not terrorists I mean average day hardworking Arabs. It isn't just here even in liberal Colorado Springs where I had a Jewish friend she actually had someone approach her, knowing she was Jewish, and told her he had enlisted to kill Iraqis. I guess he expected her to be excited she was disgusted and disturbed. Of course she brought up this story after my brother's friend who had enlisted said the same damn thing.

Then you have gangs and white supremacists enlisting to get combat experience and bring it back to the street. This is something the army has actually tried to combat but with very limited success largely due to lazy recruiters who would rather fill quotas than explain why they can't. My Uncle who is a Command Sergeant Major knows it is so bad that he specifically sent someone out he knew for me to talk to when I was thinking of enlistment. Baghdad is covered now with graffiti from Bloods, Crips, Hammerskins, and all manner of degenerates now due to the US Armed Forces.

So is it all bad? No but there are some awful elements in it and it is something I hear complaints about from my Lifer family members.

 

[oldbadger]

I am not following?
.......................... You assume that I cannot kill people when handed a weapon? ............................... And even if I did, would that be heroic?

Hang on..... No...... it would not. Heroism is living 'day-by-day' for weeks on end, not knowing when the explosive device, or the (apparent) ally, or the enemy, or battle fatigue, or shell shock .....will take you out....... like it has done to your buddies and comrades.

Exposure to all slowly eats into your heart and soul. And you know that some of your countrymen don't give a damn for you because they don't think your country sent you to the right place at right time. It's specially lonely then.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, most of the soldiers (atleast that I have spoken to) do not join a movement such as an army to become a paraplegic. Most of the people I know who join the army, do it because either their family is oriented with militant roots or because they don't have enough drive to make it in the real world. I have yet to meet one that has said "I am doing it because I want to help people out (that hasn't been Canadian)."

They don't deserve to be called heroes, they are doing It for a paycheck and the ability to hold a rifle. Its sad that we are more comfortable as a nation to see two men holding rifles instead of holding hands.

Anybody holding a gun (besides police) will never be a hero in my eyes, sorry. Police Officers deserve the title more. They are actually doing something productive and should be called Heroes not pigs.

It would be a bad day for your country if you somehow got a job as 'Director of Forces recruitment'.
Wanted, Guys and Gals who can't make it, who just want a paycheck and shoot a gun...... oh.... and if we send you somewhere that our voters don't like, then they won't give a toss about you. You will be despised, and rebuked when you get home.' Apply to ..... R34LTY!!!

Nah.... don't reckon that's the job for you.........

 

[Orias]

They don't have a choice. What I usually tend to think about is their caring enough to fight to the death to defend their brothers in arms.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Service men and women take an oath of loyalty and service to the Queen her heirs and successors when they sign up. That Oath is for life, and does not end with the term service.

They are expected to do their duty and obey legal orders.
However many service people are recognised a going well beyond their duty and are awarded various levels of Medals for bravery and service beyond the call of duty.
The Most exceptional being awarded the Victoria Cross. Most people would consider a person awarded the Victoria Cross To have been Mad to do what they did, always with complete disregard for themselves , and in the interest of others.

Service personnel come in the same range of "Courage" as any one else, Though some certainly become or have the potential of Heroes.

Just signing on does not make you a hero.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The UK is drastically reducing the size of its standing Forces. Today it was announced that the the employers of "Part time" Volunteers will be required to release them for two months a year for training. (they may not discriminate against volunteers in any way).
This is an upgrade of the Territorial (part time)forces system we now have. They will be equipped and trained to the same level as permanent forces. They will be part of the same structure and command.
Does this make them "Part time heroes" ?

 

[oldbadger]

The UK is drastically reducing the size of its standing Forces. Today it was announced that the the employers of "Part time" Volunteers will be required to release them for two months a year for training. (they may not discriminate against volunteers in any way).
This is an upgrade of the Territorial (part time)forces system we now have. They will be equipped and trained to the same level as permanent forces. They will be part of the same structure and command.
Does this make them "Part time heroes" ?

Wow! I didn't know about all this. I think that this is all a great idea, because then we can flex 'up' or 'down' as required, and quickly.

But your question 'does this make them....' .. Yes, if they have to do dangerous things for our government.... yes.

 

[oldbadger]

Here is the thing, I post something subjective. An idea, perhaps in paragraph form. I get 3 different people focusing on a point in each sentence. The responses become over barring and half which don't necessarily make sense.

Focus on this sentence;

I don't believe that as Humans, we should treat each other in barbaric ways. I don't think we should focus on war, I don't think war should even be in our agenda's. The fact that every Soldier seems to get praise is beyond my comprehension. My mind is not wired the same way, I look at a Soldier and I see Symbolism, I see Violence, I see Fear and I see Death. I don't see a protector, literally.. they are not in North America. I have problems with Patriotism and the amount of violence in the world.

Out of all the people that could be classified as a Hero we choose.. every soldier...??? I am NOT saying that some Soldiers are not Heroic, of course they are. I still don't believe in what a Soldier symbolizes though.

No, not every soldier is a ************ student.. but the majority are. What happens if you can't get into college? Trades or Military. But lets forget the people behind the scenes. The person who diagnosed you, the person who created the meds that make you better, the person who created the computer you use or the car you drive or the reason you can even use a cell phone. But hey!! Look a guy with a gun coming back from a Country he should never have been in, in the first place..Hero.

That is what I am saying. And I think that video I posted shows a lot more than I can write up. When I think of America, I don't think of a Strong Nation that has their **** together. I think of a Scared Miserable Country that can be summed up with a Gun and a Bible.

Well....that's good.....you got all that off your chest.

Now, you moan at the responses you are getting, as if you feel that we should all go on a comprehension course before having the right to respond. But then you write ''Focus on this sentence'', and then write several together! You're just not really good at communicating yet, possibly?

You moan about soldiers, but they are a kind of international police force, these days, and although our governments sometimes make mistakes about how to use them, they are brave people to just 'follow orders regardless'. Imagine yourself getting robbed one night, but a brave law-officer comes out of the dark and saves you..... hero? That's what our brave lads and girls do all the time in the forces!

I think you are some kind of medical or biology undergrad, are you? That's interesting because in a later paragraph you write that the people who diagnose you, or the people who created the meds etc., should be the heros.... Ahhhhh.... Bless! ...... you want to be the hero.... yes?
Why didn't you just say so..... ?

Your last para is just an insult to 300 million people, really. Some intellect and a few 'A's is not enough..... I sincerely believe that time and life's traumas will produce a really great person in you, but you need to travel further, just like I do.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

I get sworn into the US Army in a few weeks =)

 

[Valjean]

Why are you joining the army, if I may ask?

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Several reasons. The most important one for me is serving the country. If some countries want to be like us(constitutional republic with liberties), and they want our help, then I believe we should be able to help them. Personally, I want to work in Burma to help them rebuild the country.

Other than that, I guess the training and benefits are good. Also, I'm in my second year of college without a career goal in mind, and I don't want to be one of the people that get a degree they don't need and then have to go back, so might as well stop for now and do what I want, and then return to school when I have some idea of what I want to do with my life.

Also, it would be nice to tell my kids that their dad served the country.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why not call people who do more than just carry a gun around, heroes?

I have several friends in the military. None of them "just carry a gun around."

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

I have several friends in the military. None of them "just carry a gun around."

Lol nice signature.

 

[Valjean]

Several reasons. The most important one for me is serving the country. If some countries want to be like us(constitutional republic with liberties), and they want our help, then I believe we should be able to help them. Personally, I want to work in Burma to help them rebuild the country.

Other than that, I guess the training and benefits are good. Also, I'm in my second year of college without a career goal in mind, and I don't want to be one of the people that get a degree they don't need and then have to go back, so might as well stop for now and do what I want, and then return to school when I have some idea of what I want to do with my life.

Also, it would be nice to tell my kids that their dad served the country.

I can see the advantage of the training and benefits, but you might want to reconsider the "serving your country" part.
The military doesn't serve the country. The military works for the corporations to secure markets. Not only does it not protect the country, it harms the country.

The US is not in danger -- at least not from without. We don't need protection. No-one's going to invade us. The only reason anyone has any anti-American animosity is because of our military adventurism and military backed corporate exploitation. It was the military, for example, that caused the 9/11 attack.
If you join the military you increase, not decrease, the threats to our liberty.

You might also consider the morality of abdicating your conscience and letting others make moral decisions for you.

The training and benefits are good, though....

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Why did you say that if I join, I increase the threats to liberty? What if every soldier felt that way? We wouldn't have a military.