Soldiers are....Heroes ??

[Valjean]

And no-one would be ****** off at us any more. Al Qaeda would have to pack up and go home.
Why would we need a military anyway, except perhaps a coast guard and national guard?

Again, there is no existential threat to the US, Any terrorist who might strike out against us would do so because he was ****** off at what our military is doing.

People don't attack Greenland, or Mongolia, or Norway because these countries don't send armies all over the world to mess with them. People in these countries feel secure, even without a massive military.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

They don't need to attack those countries. The US is the greatest force for good on the planet, and has the strongest military. If we had no military, countries like Russia, China, Iran, North Korea would invade us in a heart beat. The reason they haven't is because they can't now.

Here's a quote from one of the generals of the Imperial Japanese army when he was asked if his army would ever invade America. "No! Don't invade America. They all have guns. They'll attack at you from behind every blade of grass." I understand that this quote would better suit a gun control debate, but it's valid here too. It's because of our powerful military and our guns that no one will dare invade us.

Ahmadinejad has said several times "Death to America, death to Israel". Are we supposed to be like Neville Chamberlain and look the other way? Radical Islam is a threat to the whole western world, and you would have to be out there fighting it to understand it. The only reason you are able to sit there safe in the comforts of the US is because of all the brave men and women who died out there to keep you safe.

Also, they feel secure because the US is around. especially Norway, who is a NATO ally. To be honest, no country on this side of the world(except maybe Cuba and Venezuela because they don't like us) needs a military because they're so close to the US, but they keep them anyways, because if we lose our military, they would be in danger.

 

[Valjean]

They don't need to attack those countries. The US is the greatest force for good on the planet, and has the strongest military. If we had no military, countries like Russia, China, Iran, North Korea would invade us in a heart beat. The reason they haven't is because they can't now.

That's right-wing propaganda, my friend. That's paranoia. If they wanted to invade someone why haven't they invaded some of the hundreds of other countries with weak militaries?
China's never been a imperialistic country. The Soviets couldn't even take Afghanistan or hold onto their Baltic Republics. Both have enough on their plates with their own countries.
Iran? -- North Korea(!!!) -- seriously?
The greatest threat to the US is our willing abdication of our own freedoms in the name of security; it's our own paranoia creating a police state. In the name of security we're becoming that which we purport to be defending against.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

Here's a quote from one of the generals of the Imperial Japanese army when he was asked if his army would ever invade America. "No! Don't invade America. They all have guns. They'll attack at you from behind every blade of grass." I understand that this quote would better suit a gun control debate, but it's valid here too. It's because of our powerful military and our guns that no one will dare invade us.

They won't invade us because the cost would be greater than the benefit -- even without the military. And what would the point be?
Relax, dude. The Hun is not at the door. There's no monster in the closet. The only reason anyone would attack us is because our military has ****** them off. Nobody is going to invade us.

Ahmadinejad has said several times "Death to America, death to Israel". Are we supposed to be like Neville Chamberlain and look the other way? Radical Islam is a threat to the whole western world, and you would have to be out there fighting it to understand it. The only reason you are able to sit there safe in the comforts of the US is because of all the brave men and women who died out there to keep you safe.

Ahmadinejad is a figurehead. The Supreme Leader has denounced war.
And radical Islam is only Radical because of our exploitation and meddling in their affairs. If you don't keep poking a hornet's nest the hornets will leave you alone.

The brave men and women didn't fight for our freedom. They fought for markets, for corporations and imperial doomination. We are Imperial Rome.

Even before WWII the US was an aggressive, imperial power running roughshod over the world: War Is A Racket, by Major General Smedley Butler, 1935
We've become even more aggressive since then.

Also, they feel secure because the US is around. especially Norway, who is a NATO ally. To be honest, no country on this side of the world(except maybe Cuba and Venezuela because they don't like us) needs a military because they're so close to the US, but they keep them anyways, because if we lose our military, they would be in danger.

Pax Americana? -- but at what price?

Just curious, If you want to help rebuild Burma why don't you consider the Peace Corps?

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Oh please... You're one of those peace on Earth people huh? It comes with a price though. We didn't enter WW1 or WW2 for any markets, neither did we go to Afghanistan or Iraq or Korea or Vietnam. It's this attitude of appeasement that's gonna get us into trouble, just like it happened to the British in WW2. We need to make it very clear to these countries that if they push us, we'll push back harder.

I don't want to join the Peace Corps. I want to be a military man, because if a big war ever starts and they need people, I don't want to be one of the people sitting at home waiting for my food rations. I want to be out on the battle field.

 

[Valjean]

Oh please... You're one of those peace on Earth people huh? It comes with a price though. We didn't enter WW1 or WW2 for any markets, neither did we go to Afghanistan or Iraq or Korea or Vietnam. It's this attitude of appeasement that's gonna get us into trouble, just like it happened to the British in WW2. We need to make it very clear to these countries that if they push us, we'll push back harder.

I don't want to join the Peace Corps. I want to be a military man, because if a big war ever starts and they need people, I don't want to be one of the people sitting at home waiting for my food rations. I want to be out on the battle field.

There's something wrong with peace on Earth?
I'll give you WWII, but 99% of what the military's been about in the past couple centuries has been naked imperialism, not defense. Territory and markets. Maintaining the military-industrial complex.
Read your history. Read General Butler's speech I linked to in a previous post.

If you want to do good, join the Peace Corps. If you want to kill people and break things, join the military. That's what they're all about.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

No. World peace doesn't come that easily. The US isn't the cause of the problems of the world. The US is there to defend the world. Ya, we've done some wrong in the past, but no side is ever clean. If we want world peace, we have to fight for it. we can't just give everyone a flower and say "let's be friends". It doesn't work that way.

Right... The military is for killing and breaking huh? That's why we go and give food and water to the poor of the world...

As for the corporations, what business they do with foreign countries is their own personal matter.

 

[Valjean]

No. World peace doesn't come that easily. The US isn't the cause of the problems of the world. The US is there to defend the world. Ya, we've done some wrong in the past, but no side is ever clean. If we want world peace, we have to fight for it. we can't just give everyone a flower and say "let's be friends". It doesn't work that way.

Admittedly we're killer apes by nature, but the US is not here to defend the world. That's the UN's job -- or should be. We've pretty much been in a state of perpetual war one place or another since the end of the last big one, and if you read the link I posted you'd know we were almost as interventionist before then. When not actually fighting we're toppling governments, installing puppets &c. We are not the good guys. We have not been minding our own business. We've been meddling in other country's affairs, and a lot of them are pretty p***ed about it.
If you want world peace mind your own business, don't exploit others, keep your military at home.

Right... The military is for killing and breaking huh? That's why we go and give food and water to the poor of the world...

This doesn't counter my assertion -- and I was quoting Rush Limbaugh anyway.

As for the corporations, what business they do with foreign countries is their own personal matter.

Yet we use the military to protect them, to intimidate countries into capitulating to them, to open markets for them. This should not be the function of the military.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Oh. I don't listen to Limbaugh lol. I admit, we've been doing lots of bad lately when it comes to countries like Libya and Syria, but that's the government doing it. We don't support it, but we can't just kick them out. American values however don't just disappear like that.

I'm not involving myself with what other branches of the military do. I'm just there to help rebuild places and he ready to fight if ever needed to.

 

[Valjean]

Oh. I don't listen to Limbaugh lol. I admit, we've been doing lots of bad lately when it comes to countries like Libya and Syria, but that's the government doing it. We don't support it, but we can't just kick them out. American values however don't just disappear like that.

Libya and Syria are nothing. We didn't start that.
How about Iraq? How were our actions any different from Germany's invasion of Poland? Why are we still in Afghanistan? Why are we propping up an oppressive Saudi Regime? Why are we bombing Yemen and Somalia?
American values? Freedom, Democracy, pursuit of happiness? The military opposes all of these. America prefers dealing with dictatorships. Democracies are inconvenient. They want to help their own people. The CIA routinely topples democracies and installs dictators. You've heard of "gunboat diplomacy?" well, it's still going on.
Don't speak from ignorance. Read: War Is A Racket by Smedley D. Butler

I'm not involving myself with what other branches of the military do. I'm just there to help rebuild places and he ready to fight if ever needed to.

You're going to request humanitarian duty?!
When you join the military you go where they send you, do what you're told. The military's not a humanitarian organization. It's there to project power, to intimidate, to kill people and break things in the interests of American (and multinational) business. It's the military that broke what you dream of rebuilding.

 

[Flankerl]

Living in a country where hero worship of soldiers is seen as impossible i always found it interesting how US americans, canadians or british handle the matter.

Simply impossible here.

 

[illykitty]

No. World peace doesn't come that easily. The US isn't the cause of the problems of the world. The US is there to defend the world. Ya, we've done some wrong in the past, but no side is ever clean. If we want world peace, we have to fight for it. we can't just give everyone a flower and say "let's be friends". It doesn't work that way.

It's true that no side is clean of past horrors, but you've got to admit, the US has done a LOT.

If you truly believe the bolded, I recommend you watch The Power Principle it sheds some light on US involvements.

To the OP, I sympathise with what you're trying to say, it's hard for me to grasp how all of this is "honourable" and "heroic".

 

[BSM1]

Why did you say that if I join, I increase the threats to liberty? What if every soldier felt that way? We wouldn't have a military.

Joining the military is an honorable endeavor, so pay no attention to those who think that we can befriend radical and fanatic individuals over coffee and air kisses. These types are naive at best (no disrespect intended). In service you may be asked to do things that you deem stupid, and you may be right. There might be mistakes made. Innocent people may be hurt and even killed. But, on the other hand, you may be instrumental in protecting the liberties we hold dear. Deep down I believe you know that freedom must be defended by each person. So serve with honor (you'll understand this when you're in) and you'll be able to hold your head up for the rest of your life. There is no greater reward than your grandchildren proudly displaying you at school during a Veteran's Day ceremony.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

And no-one would be ****** off at us any more. Al Qaeda would have to pack up and go home.
Why would we need a military anyway, except perhaps a coast guard and national guard?

Again, there is no existential threat to the US, Any terrorist who might strike out against us would do so because he was ****** off at what our military is doing.

People don't attack Greenland, or Mongolia, or Norway because these countries don't send armies all over the world to mess with them. People in these countries feel secure, even without a massive military.

There's no existential threat to the US... right. If any country drops their military, liked or not, they're hopeless.

 

[BSM1]

There's no existential threat to the US... right. If any country drops their military, liked or not, they're hopeless.

This. Also, one country in this world is going to have the most military might. Ask yourself which country you want this to be.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why do we view soldiers as Heroes? I keep seeing comments like "God Bless, Thank you for protecting us. You're a true hero" on pictures of Soldiers on Facebook.


How is it that we view our soldiers as Heroes and the Countries we infiltrate as Terrorists? (I say this as North Americans)

Just something I have been pondering, what are your thoughts?

I guess it is an extension of the aggression instincts of people. With any luck and a lot of persistence and purpose we will someday overcome that.

The very existence of a permanent armed force, for any country (as opposed to very specialized, small branches such as a coastal guard and fireman's force) is something of an obscenity. That would be true even if the arms race did not take place.

We have actually reached the point where most of humanity's efforts are directed at having plenty of expensive, ridiculously powerful toys to extinguish itself and being proud of it.

It seems that people did not learn the lesson from Eisenhower's farewell speech in 1961.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower's_farewell_address

 

[Valjean]

I think some people here have overdeveloped amygdalas....
I'm reminded of the near panic in the '80s by those who seriously feared the Nicaraguan Sandinistas were going to attack us over the southern border.

If the world were so rapacious we'd see great powers gobbling up lesser ones all the time, but we don't. There are lots of small, weak countries in the world that could probably be overrun by a determined Boy Scout troop. Why aren't these gobbled up?

Why would another power want to invade the US? How would it be worth the trouble? And how would they hold it? Wasn't the Soviet superpower chased out of Afghanistan by ragtag troops of illiterate peasants?
Empire is expensive. In the end it exhausts itself.

What does it matter, BSM, which country has the most military might? All you need for security is enough defensive capacity to make attack inconvenient or not worth the trouble. A massive, offensive capacity is expensive and invites adventurism.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Joining the military is an honorable endeavor, so pay no attention to those who think that we can befriend radical and fanatic individuals over coffee and air kisses. These types are naive at best (no disrespect intended). In service you may be asked to do things that you deem stupid, and you may be right. There might be mistakes made. Innocent people may be hurt and even killed. But, on the other hand, you may be instrumental in protecting the liberties we hold dear. Deep down I believe you know that freedom must be defended by each person. So serve with honor (you'll understand this when you're in) and you'll be able to hold your head up for the rest of your life. There is no greater reward than your grandchildren proudly displaying you at school during a Veteran's Day ceremony.

Thanks =)

 

[CaptainNobody]

Some soldiers are heroes, some are ordinary people with no other choice, others are just robots who follow orders, and others are absolute scumbags who enjoy the killing.

Having served in the military, I've known all types.

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

Some soldiers are heroes, some are ordinary people with no other choice, others are just robots who follow orders, and others are absolute scumbags who enjoy the killing.

Having served in the military, I've known all types.

There's good and bad everywhere... Thanks for serving =)

 

[Valjean]

There's good and bad everywhere... Thanks for serving =)

Alas, I think the only things servicemen serve is the Military-Industrial Complex, megabanks and multinational corporations.
As I expressed earlier, I think they actually harm national security.