Same-faith....debates?! What?!

[savagewind]

Yep, this is the standard response. Don't let anyone sway you from your chosen position...

This directive you have from the governing body

that's OK,

This is your own opinion, not God's.

we all have to choose our own path.

And this is Jesus trying to warn you that your path is your own, not his.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" .....I believe that when I see posts like yours.

You can't deny that the "Autographs" are ALL GONE and they were gone when the first translations were made. What did Jesus say about the scribes? You deny what he said every time you tell yourself that God protected The Word whenever it was handled.
When the word was written it was always written with heart. But the translating of it and the copying of it was different. It is WORK.YOU say the writing of it and the copying of it are the same occupation. I shall risk saying, "the governing body are making people stupider". I know you are not stupid. Please prove me right.

You didn't answer the question. People reading do not know that you won't answer me because the JW rule is that I do not deserve an answer from you. But, what about them?

Is there one table of Jehovah or with each generation is there a new one? Also, is Jesus at your table with you?

 

[Jainarayan]

Yo
u know, I was thinking about the mystery cults of the Greco-Roman world and reflecting on how the rituals performed in them are most probably lost forever. We have tantalizing clues in art and literature, but not enough. Have you ever read the Golden *** by Apuleius? I have. Apuleius is supposed to have been an initiate into the Mysteries of Isis, and he gives some hints as to what actually happened; but, because of the oath of secrecy, we only have glimpses.

No, haven't read the book.

One of the biggest bones of contention we have in Heathenry is the lack of complete records, the 1,000 year break in the traditions, and how we fill in those gaps. Not to mention what we have written was written 100-200 years after the Christianization of Scandinavia and end of the Viking Age. For example, you will find many Heathens writing that the gods do not interact with us mere mortals as individuals, only as communities, tribes and nations. The people with this view say it's because in the Lore it is only great heroes, kings and other notable and special people the gods interacted with.

However, paraphrasing someone at another site:*: "... a lot of the day-to-day practice was probably never written down or preserved. It was likely either too mundane or common knowledge for the readers, or generally beneath remark or interest of the writers.

Reconstruction and filling in gaps requires a good deal of inference from both related later period practices and contemporary neighboring cultures (... the ancestor veneration practices of the Romans a bit, for example)."

That is pretty much my view. The cliché and hackneyed phrase I use is "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". We do have to fill in gaps from what we know of surrounding and extant cultures and traditions. My question is "why are the Norse gods so different from the Hindu, Celtic, Kemetic, Greek, and Roman gods that they (the Norse gods) would behave differently towards us than those other pantheons?" Granted, with the exception of Hinduism, those other traditions are reconstructionist, but unless I've misread, I see a lot of followers of those reconstructed religions talking about one-on-one relationships with the gods.

Now, that is just one (albeit long) example of the problems with missing lore and texts. This is where UPG (unverified personal gnosis, Wiki link) comes into play. But one has to be careful it doesn't turn into MUS (made up ****)... MUS is when "your beliefs and practices can become so far removed from what Ásatrú and Heathenry are that they may seem alien to other Ásatrúar and Heathens, which may cause you to get some negative reactions to your practices and beliefs"* though you are free to practice religion and pray to the gods any way you chose; caveat emptor.

*Ásatrú subreddit.

 

[gnostic]

I'm holding out for a Same Faithless forum, so I can finally give the rest of the atheists around here a good dressing down.

I am perfectly capable of dressing myself.

I wear pants, not dresses.

 

[Neo Deist]

The proof is right under your nose...its called prophesy. What Jesus foretold almost 2,000 years ago is happening right now as these "last days" come to their finish. The "harvest time" is drawing closer by the day, and the "weeds" will be gathered first. If seeing is believing, then you will believe one day soon. Can't say you weren't told.



Yep, this is the standard response. Don't let anyone sway you from your chosen position...that's OK, we all have to choose our own path.
You can take your fingers out of your ears when you see Jesus come as judge. (Matt 7:21-23) He might ask you why you didn't listen.



Do you know the Biblical definition of a "Jew"?

Let me give you Paul's description....

Rom 2:28, 29:
"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." (NASB)

Rom 9:6-8:
"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: through Isaac your descendants will be named.” That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants."

In Matt 3:9, John the Baptist told the Pharisees...."and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham for our father’; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham."

So, being born "Jewish" has no bearing on salvation. The "Israel of God" mentioned by Paul at Gal 6:16, consisted of both Jewish and gentile Christians (spiritual Jews)...not just fleshly Israel, whom Jesus said was "abandoned" by God because of their rejection of him as Messiah. (Matt 23:37-39)



You are correct. But the divine name occurs almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures. At the time the Septuagint was written, it was the custom (or should I say self imposed practice) among the Jews to refrain from using the divine name in their speech, though it was still there in their scriptures with the four consonants YHWH.

When the NWT encountered a quote from the OT in a NT passage where the tetragrammaton was clearly in evidence in the original quote, then we put God's name back where it should be without apology. God's name was used freely and with reverence throughout the Hebrew writings and when we translate the Bible into other languages, there are alterations made in the way names are rendered. It didn't change the meaning of the scriptures in any way, it just rendered the name in the language of the translators.

Since there is no "J" in Hebrew, there should be no names beginning with "J" to be found anywhere in the scriptures...but you and I both know that there are many "J" names in there.
Jeremiah, Jehosaphat, Joseph, Jehoshua, Johanan and even Jesus.

If "Jehovah" does not belong in the scriptures, then neither does "Jesus", whose name means "Jehovah is Salvation". Both are English translations of their Hebrew names.

I think some serious Bible study is in order for you. The people from whom you glean your information have given you much misinformation.

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" .....I believe that when I see posts like yours.

Show me scientific, verifiable proof and then we can talk. Right now, you have nothing other than speculation and selective interpretation. JWs are known for their spin jobs on biblical interpretation.

 

[Deeje]

Show me scientific, verifiable proof and then we can talk. Right now, you have nothing other than speculation and selective interpretation.

If there was verifiable proof, we would not need faith. Without faith, there is no approach to God. (Heb 11:6) He rewards faith.

If God doesn't exist then what is the point of this existence? Humans ruin everything they touch. I am comforted by the Bible's message of hope for a very enjoyable future. I have a relationship with God that you apparently have never had. I feel sorry that you have become such a cynic because of not believing unless you "see" with your own eyes. You know, by the time you "see" it will be too late. "Like the days of Noah", Jesus said (Matt 24:37-39)....they didn't believe either until they "saw with their own eyes" what Noah had been trying to tell them.....too late then.
Noah had eyes of faith...so do I. Being under the care of the most powerful being in existence is the safest place to be right now. Man is careening from one disaster to another...all because they failed to listen to their Creator. There is an accounting coming, very soon. Then there will be all the verifiable proof needed.....but it won't do skeptics a scrap of good.

JWs are known for their spin jobs on biblical interpretation.

So was Jesus. His apostles carried on the "spin" until "the church" which apostatized very early in history, made up its own spin in a complete departure from everything Jesus taught. This is called Christendom and if you compare anything that Christendom teaches as her foundation doctrines, you will not find them in the scriptures.

I know what makes perfect sense to me regardless of what anyone else thinks....popular opinion has never been a reliable guide as far as Christianity is concerned. It's what got Jesus executed as a common criminal. ...remember?

 

[Neo Deist]

If there was verifiable proof, we would not need faith. Without faith, there is no approach to God. (Heb 11:6) He rewards faith.

Translation: I don't have any proof, but I am throwing the faith card down because that is all I have to go on.

If God doesn't exist then what is the point of this existence?

I never said God doesn't exist. Quite the contrary.

Humans ruin everything they touch.

That includes the Bible, from its original form (the Autographs). The NWT for example, as a highly paraphrased "we want it to say THIS" version of the Bible.

I have a relationship with God that you apparently have never had.

Never had? I am closer to God now, more than ever.

I feel sorry that you have become such a cynic because of not believing unless you "see" with your own eyes.

It's called intelligence, and not being brainwashed and told what to believe.

You know, by the time you "see" it will be too late. "Like the days of Noah", Jesus said (Matt 24:37-39)....they didn't believe either until they "saw with their own eyes" what Noah had been trying to tell them.....too late then. Noah had eyes of faith...so do I.

You mean Utnapishtim, the guy from the Epic of Gilgamesh that the Noah story is based off of. The EoG is much older. Noah is an obvious knock off.

I know what makes perfect sense to me regardless of what anyone else thinks....popular opinion has never been a reliable guide as far as Christianity is concerned. It's what got Jesus executed as a common criminal. ...remember?

Actually, that would be Pilate having Jesus crucified to put down his rebellion, or at least to make an example out of him for those looking to rebel against the Roman Empire. History 101.

 

[Deeje]

Your choices to make.