"Russia Will Be a Muslim Country"

[Zephyr]

LOL

Russi have seen the hell holes of oppression many muslim countries have become ? :areyoucra what about russia itself ? isn't it a hellhole of oppression ? :cover:
it's true that your media tells you only about what Iran do with the bahai's and jews and doesn't tell you what the atheist russians did and are still doing to the muslims..but this is not an excuse to stay ignorant , Really...So now ,you have to do your homework and tell me : How is more oppressive ? Iran to the Bahais or russia to the muslims ?

Being gay isn't illegal in Russia. Neither is being a member of a minority religion. So tell me, how is the Russian government oppressing Muslims? I don't care about citizens oppressing people because if we go by that definition, then every country in the world oppresses just about everyone.

BTW ,i also believe that russia is not going to be a muslim country..at least not soon..and that the topic of this thread is no more than propaganda made by a fanatic to justify more and more oppresion towards the muslim minority there...So that the end result will be : If Iran is oppressive to the Bahais..that is the fault of islam..and if russia is oprressive to the muslims..it's also the fault of islam...because it wants to take over russia :areyoucra

one more thing if you don't mind..you said : I support anybody who would fight against that.

The above statment raised the alarm inside me..how do you want people to fight against that ? hopefully not by eradicating muslims...or do you have other plans in mind ?

Things haven't gotten bad enough for me to advocate any sort of violence.
The Russian government should limit immigration from Muslim-majority regions, but beyond that there isn't a whole lot they could do without causing problems. Voluntary repatriation maybe? It would need enough benefits to make it worthwhile of course. From there the only thing left is to let public opinion do the rest.

 

[Zephyr]

England is also allowing religious courts for the jews...and guess what ?..my non-democratic country is also allowing christians to be judged by their own religious laws ,not the islamic ones..it's called Tolerance and co existance...but some fanatics will never be able to live with that..what can i say ? C'est la vie...

It's called double standards. All people of a country should be ruled by the same laws, regardless of origin. Allowing people to choose to follow their own laws works to prevent people from integrating into society. Tolerance and coexistence are overrated.

 

[darkendless]

England is also allowing religious courts for the jews...and guess what ?..my non-democratic country is also allowing christians to be judged by their own religious laws ,not the islamic ones..it's called Tolerance and co existance...but some fanatics will never be able to live with that..what can i say ? C'est la vie...

No its pandering to fairy tales from 2000 years ago. What if my religion is a Walt Disney novel, do i get special exceptions as well? Do i get to be tried by the laws of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? Unlikely, but the story behind "my religion" is just as valid.

Religion is not an excuse, it's sad that it appears that it is. Are the long established laws of a country not good enough for these "special groups of people"???

 

[kai]

PLease, Please, Please, would people try and understand that Sharia courts in the UK as well as the Beth Din is volountary arbitration well within the law of the land.Which means they are within the law of the land.

 

[maro]

Being gay isn't illegal in Russia.

neither in Iran . Avowing the practice of homosexuality is the illegal part

Neither is being a member of a minority religion.
So tell me, how is the Russian government oppressing Muslims? I don't care about citizens oppressing people because if we go by that definition, then every country in the world oppresses just about everyone.

you don't care about citizens oppressing people ? , probably if those citizens were muslims ,you would have cared !!
The problems of the russian muslims come from both the government and the citizens..but i am not going to tell you..it's your own homework..you are so lazy , Aren't you ? :cover:

Things haven't gotten bad enough for me to advocate any sort of violence.

i wish you clarify that ,if you don't mind..how bad it needs to become for violence to become justified against a perticular minority "according to your morality "? and what kind of violence exactly you are talking about ?

The Russian government should limit immigration from Muslim-majority regions, but beyond that there isn't a whole lot they could do without causing problems. Voluntary repatriation maybe? It would need enough benefits to make it worthwhile of course. From there the only thing left is to let public opinion do the rest.

but what if i have told you that the russian muslims are not foreign immigrants and that they are native citizens ?

It's called double standards. All people of a country should be ruled by the same laws, regardless of origin. Allowing people to choose to follow their own laws works to prevent people from integrating into society. Tolerance and coexistence are overrated.

You say all people should be ruled by the same laws..but which laws do you mean ?..certainly the secular ones ...in rome ,do what the romans do..and in Iran ,do what the romans do as well !!!! is this how your logic works ?
if a muslim man can't marry more than one wife in England for example (although it's not against his beliefs and morlaity ) ,why it's such a big deal if a gay can't practice homosexuality in Iran ( although it's not against his beliefs and morality ) ,do you want the muslim minority to completely submit to the secular standards in order to *integrate * and at the same time you want the muslim majority to submit to the secular standards in their own countries ?

look Zephyr ,what is bad to you ,might be good to me....your fairytales are my religious creed...and the human rights you believe in are not necessarily the ones i belive in..in short ,we have different standards..so don't expect me to see the wold through your eyes and bow down to your standards in both your country and mine...i suggest you read this thread http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...lity-outside-religion.html?highlight=morality it might help you understand what i am talking about

 

[maro]

No its pandering to fairy tales from 2000 years ago. What if my religion is a Walt Disney novel, do i get special exceptions as well? Do i get to be tried by the laws of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs? Unlikely, but the story behind "my religion" is just as valid.

Religion is not an excuse, it's sad that it appears that it is. Are the long established laws of a country not good enough for these "special groups of people"???

They are fairy tales to you,not to them.
i want you to close your eyes ,relax and repeat this as much as possible...Those are firytales to me , but not to them..so ,if i don't want those religious folks to force their fairytales on me ,i should never ever try to force my atheism and secularism on them !

 

[Zephyr]

PLease, Please, Please, would people try and understand that Sharia courts in the UK as well as the Beth Din is volountary arbitration well within the law of the land.Which means they are within the law of the land.

Even that ain't right though. I'm no fan of arbitration because things can be done too loosely. Then again, do you guys even have a written constitution? Bah, whatever, it's really not my business, as I'll elaborate on later in this post.

neither in Iran . Avowing the practice of homosexuality is the illegal part

Oh, okay, so it's perfectly fine to be gay so long as you never act on it. That's much better .

you don't care about citizens oppressing people ? , probably if those citizens were muslims ,you would have cared !!
The problems of the russian muslims come from both the government and the citizens..but i am not going to tell you..it's your own homework..you are so lazy , Aren't you ? :cover:

I support the natives of any land fighting for their homes.

i wish you clarify that ,if you don't mind..how bad it needs to become for violence to become justified against a perticular minority "according to your morality "? and what kind of violence exactly you are talking about ?

If I were to tell you what I would do, it would break rule 6, and I've probably done that enough here.

but what if i have told you that the russian muslims are not foreign immigrants and that they are native citizens ?

Then they need to be rooted out.

You say all people should be ruled by the same laws..but which laws do you mean ?..certainly the secular ones ...in rome ,do what the romans do..and in Iran ,do what the romans do as well !!!! is this how your logic works ?
if a muslim man can't marry more than one wife in England for example (although it's not against his beliefs and morlaity ) ,why it's such a big deal if a gay can't practice homosexuality in Iran ( although it's not against his beliefs and morality ) ,do you want the muslim minority to completely submit to the secular standards in order to *integrate * and at the same time you want the muslim majority to submit to the secular standards in their own countries ?

Oh, I don't think Muslim countries should follow secular laws. I think it's pants-on-head retarded that they don't, but I believe they have a right to self-determination. Their nation, their laws.

look Zephyr ,what is bad to you ,might be good to me....your fairytales are my religious creed...and the human rights you believe in are not necessarily the ones i belive in..in short ,we have different standards..so don't expect me to see the wold through your eyes and bow down to your standards in both your country and mine...i suggest you read this thread http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...lity-outside-religion.html?highlight=morality it might help you understand what i am talking about

Have your own laws, as intelligent or stupid as they may be. I'm cool with that. The second they try to stretch into my homelands, there will be blood.

 

[Wandered Off]

PLease, Please, Please, would people try and understand that Sharia courts in the UK as well as the Beth Din is volountary arbitration well within the law of the land.Which means they are within the law of the land.

Part of me completely agrees with this, but another part is a little concerned about whether it's truly voluntary for the participants. Would there be social consequences for people of those communities who opt out? Could we imagine a scenario in which a woman goes to the Sharia court even though she feels she won't get treated as well because opting out might make her an outcast?

I don't know whether that would happen or not, but with close-knit communities who already don't seem to feel part of the broader community (as evidenced by the existence of these voluntary court systems in the first place), it seems plausible.

 

[darkendless]

They are fairy tales to you,not to them.
i want you to close your eyes ,relax and repeat this as much as possible...Those are firytales to me , but not to them..so ,if i don't want those religious folks to force their fairytales on me ,i should never ever try to force my atheism and secularism on them !

If you read my post, what is the difference between the Quran and a walt disney novel? Why should i be denied voluntary arbitration based on the laws of snow white and the seven dwarfs? Give me an answer.

 

[neves]

If you read my post, what is the difference between the Quran and a walt disney novel? Why should i be denied voluntary arbitration based on the laws of snow white and the seven dwarfs? Give me an answer.

Just so your argument has a leg to stand on ... what are the laws of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs?

 

[darkendless]

Just so your argument has a leg to stand on ... what are the laws of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs?

Does it matter? Who is to say which laws are any more important than any others?

Snow White - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kai]

Part of me completely agrees with this, but another part is a little concerned about whether it's truly voluntary for the participants. Would there be social consequences for people of those communities who opt out? Could we imagine a scenario in which a woman goes to the Sharia court even though she feels she won't get treated as well because opting out might make her an outcast?

I don't know whether that would happen or not, but with close-knit communities who already don't seem to feel part of the broader community (as evidenced by the existence of these voluntary court systems in the first place), it seems plausible.

I dont want to derail the thread about this subject ,i just wanted to point out that arbitration in Sharia or Beth din is within UK law not instead of.

 

[Yerda]

Why is it important if Russia becomes a Muslim country or not?

 

[Zephyr]

Why is it important if Russia becomes a Muslim country or not?

Well, I'm not Russian so my only knowledge is from people who are admittedly biased, but there will be bloodshed. Russian Nationalists will not take kindly to the changes.

 

[darkendless]

Why is it important if Russia becomes a Muslim country or not?

If i were Russian, i'd be terribly concerned that much of my heritage would be destroyed and/or forgotten. They've been orthodox for hundreds of years with some beautiful landmarks. If it were to be a dominant muslim country what would happen to smirnoff vodka :sad4:

 

[Gharib]

Well, I'm not Russian so my only knowledge is from people who are admittedly biased, but there will be bloodshed. Russian Nationalists will not take kindly to the changes.

thats what the germans said and look at where they are now.

 

[darkendless]

thats what the germans said and look at where they are now.

I spent a while in a place called Goppingen, an innocent German town. It was unsafe to go out at night because of Turkish people everywhere. Thats why i'd hate to be Russian, seeing these people take over my country. Germany is still a nice place, just with no safety factor anymore.

 

[Gharib]

I spent a while in a place called Goppingen, an innocent German town. It was unsafe to go out at night because of Turkish people everywhere. Thats why i'd hate to be Russian, seeing these people take over my country. Germany is still a nice place, just with no safety factor anymore.

why would you be afraid to go out at night. muslims don't bite, not in day light nor in night time. well considering that everyone hates muslims, so we might as well commit the crime if we are to be convicted for something. have you ever been to egypt. everyone's a muslim and if you go there during the month of ramadan, all the people will be out at night, it would be shamfull for anyone to say that they are affraid to go out at night in egypt. muslim countries are peacefull but it is the hate of the non muslims that have made them like that, you've done nothing wrong so why would you be affraid to go out.

 

[Zephyr]

thats what the germans said and look at where they are now.

That fight isn't over, and sadly won't be for a long while.

 

[darkendless]

why would you be afraid to go out at night. muslims don't bite, not in day light nor in night time. well considering that everyone hates muslims, so we might as well commit the crime if we are to be convicted for something. have you ever been to egypt. everyone's a muslim and if you go there during the month of ramadan, all the people will be out at night, it would be shamfull for anyone to say that they are affraid to go out at night in egypt. muslim countries are peacefull but it is the hate of the non muslims that have made them like that, you've done nothing wrong so why would you be affraid to go out.

Because if you dress in any way offensively to them, they will kick you in the head a few times while you're on the ground. We saw it once, it was not nice, not in a German town. You'd expect that in Munich or Berlin, not in GP. It really is sad, theres like a German part of town, and then a Turkish side of town. It is disappointing.