Robert E. Lee Statue In Virginia Will Be Removed

[Kangaroo Feathers]

As far as I know, there are no Nazi statues in Germany.
Does that stop you from knowing that the Holocaust occurred?

There are no Nazi statues in Germany. There are however many war memorials to soldiers lost in the second world war. Some very beautiful, if you like art deco stylings. Well worth a google, there's some exhaustive list photo essays about them

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I think the message it sends is that racists shouldn't be venerated with statues and monuments celebrating them.

When the Iraqis knocked down that statue of Saddam Hussein, they weren't erasing history. They were saying, "we don't revere this man as a great leader deserving of any place of honour."

American troops knocked down mostof Saddam' s statues, for accuracy. Iraqis have kind of a funny attitude about him. Most will agree he did stuff they didn't like, but few are in any rush to trash his monuments.

 

[ecco]

Beyond stupid. Guess the PC police do not understand history.

Destroying a reminder of our National history does not remove the history all it does is try to hid it.

If we are to remember our National history we have to have a statue, graveyard, or some other symbol to remind us of that history, whether it is good or bad.

Does this look to you like something to remind the people of the HISTORY of slavery?

To me, and I'm 1st generation American and white, it looks like a grand memorial to a righteous General who led soldiers in a righteous cause.

If you want something to remind people of the history of the times, perhaps a sculpture of a white man whipping a black slave would be more appropriate, wouldn't you agree?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Beyond stupid. Guess the PC police do not understand history.

If we want to understand history, let's do it with an appropriate statue. I'd be all for replacing this monument with one depicting Lee kneeling in defeat before Grant after his failed attempted to destroy this nation. It's disgusting that the only way you think we can remember history is to depict Lee as a proud general leading his troops into battle. It's almost as if the people who support this statue are determined to present a shameful history as something we should be proud of.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Taking down statues is strictly symbolic and has no IMMEDIATE effect on the grievances expressed by the demonstrators.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

If we want to understand history, let's do it with an appropriate statue. I'd be all for replacing this monument with one depicting Lee kneeling in defeat before Grant after his failed attempted to destroy this nation. It's disgusting that the only way you think we can remember history is to depict Lee as a proud general leading his troops into battle. It's almost as if the people who support this statue are determined to present a shameful history as something we should be proud of.

Interesting idea. Although let's not pretend that the Union was 100% anti-slavery because they definitely weren't. Grant himself had slaves at one time and Lincoln didn't actually care about ending slavery, at least at first.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Interesting idea. Although let's not pretend that the Union was 100% anti-slavery because they definitely weren't. Grant himself had slaves at one time and Lincoln didn't actually care about ending slavery, at least at first.

This would be less about his advocacy of slavery and more about his advocacy for destroying the United States of America.

 

[Windwalker]

EDIT: If anything, they're a monument to the resurgence of racism and white supremacy in the early 1900s. Whether that warrants public monuments is a question for the American people, of course.

That is exactly correct. These were erected as a symbol supporting the cause of the South in their failed armed rebellion against the government of the United States to preserve their ownership of black men and women and children. These are not about "preserving history". These are public monuments celebrating the "cause" of the South to own slaves. They are a symbol of racism, and were erected for that very reason. They lost the war, but still fight to win the ideals of a racism. Jim Crow, etc, violence without armed forces.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Interesting idea. Although let's not pretend that the Union was 100% anti-slavery because they definitely weren't. Grant himself had slaves at one time and Lincoln didn't actually care about ending slavery, at least at first.

History is full of figures who did important things but wouldn't pass ethical muster today. Some of them - e.g. Lincoln - are still worth honoring despite their shortcomings.

OTOH, Lee's most important act was leading an army of traitors in defense of slavery and racism. What's there worth honouring? For the moment, set aside the question of whether the good outweighs the bad; is there even any good worth speaking of?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

History is full of figures who did important things but wouldn't pass ethical muster today. Some of them - e.g. Lincoln - are still worth honoring despite their shortcomings.

OTOH, Lee's most important act was leading an army of traitors in defense of slavery and racism. What's there worth honouring? For the moment, set aside the question of whether the good outweighs the bad; is there even any good worth speaking of?

I don't think they're worth honoring, but I don't think tearing down the statue will do anything to end racism. I don't care if they tear it down or not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think they're worth honoring, but I don't think tearing down the statue will do anything to end racism. I don't care if they tear it down or not.

You're right in one respect: tearing down the statue won't end racism.

However, anyone who would do anything substantive about racism wouldn't tolerate the statue.

So things may not improve if the statue's gone, but they definitely won't improve if the statue stays there.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You're right in one respect: tearing down the statue won't end racism.

However, anyone who would do anything substantive about racism wouldn't tolerate the statue.

So things may not improve if the statue's gone, but they definitely won't improve if the statue stays there.

Maybe. I'd rather focus on more practical and useful solutions to help end racism, discrimination, and police brutality. If people want to tear the statue down, that's fine, good for them. But I'm not really interested in whether that particular statue stays up or not.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would love to see statues of those involved with the underground railroad. White and black people together working for a greater cause.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No, it's a good idea to remove the statue.
This move will eliminate police racism, & end brutality.
Symbols aren't just symbols, they're the problem.
We're finally seeing positive change due to the protests.

Edit:
To be clear, I'm being sarcastic.

No, really? Whoever could have guessed?

I am not now, nor have I ever been, in favour of removing historical monuments, remembrances and the like. Pretending the past isn't the past does not, tragically, make the past go away.

Remembering the past, however, can sometimes -- with a little luck and attention -- help us not to repeat it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Beyond stupid. Guess the PC police do not understand history.

How dare they destroy history!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The confederate DemoKKKrat statue of Robert E Lee will finally be removed due to the protests. This is long overdue. If you want to view the statue, put it on private property.


View attachment 40510

Massive Robert E. Lee Statue In Richmond, Va., Will Be Removed

Good. Tear all that racist garbage down. Remove the Confederate rag from state flags, too.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, really? Whoever could have guessed?

I got a couple unexpected frubals.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, in favour of removing historical monuments, remembrances and the like. Pretending the past isn't the past does not, tragically, make the past go away.

Remembering the past, however, can sometimes -- with a little luck and attention -- help us not to repeat it.

It's like we share one brain!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's like we share one brain!

Okay, but let's leave at that, yes?

 

[Flame]

I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the example of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered ~ Robert E Lee.

Even the dude himself was against having statues built.

 

[Stevicus]

I think the message it sends is that racists shouldn't be venerated with statues and monuments celebrating them.

But is that the message? The message isn't about racists, it's just about Confederate military officers. If we're saying we shouldn't venerate racists with statues and monuments, then that would be a lot of statues and monuments. I think a lot of the problem is that society sends out a lot of mixed messages, and the overall "message" gets garbled.

Frankly, that's a large part of the reason why the country is still mired in these kinds of issues after all this time.

When the Iraqis knocked down that statue of Saddam Hussein, they weren't erasing history. They were saying, "we don't revere this man as a great leader deserving of any place of honour."

It's their country. Whatever they want to do with his statue is their business. The Soviets under Khrushchev denounced Stalin and took down all of his statues, but they kept up the statues of Lenin. 40 years earlier, they tore down the statues of the Tsar.

In the U.S., during the period after the Civil War, the Union leadership wanted to reintegrate the Confederate States back into the United States. They gave a general amnesty, and all of them were considered U.S. citizens again. So, all of those Confederate generals suddenly became American generals again. Even the Union generals had respect for their Confederate counterparts, and vice versa. Most of them served in the same army before the Civil War.

Think about it this way: Why do you think that the Northern states and the Federal government would have tolerated the KKK, Jim Crow, Separate But Equal, and all these remembrances and symbols, such as Confederate flags, monuments, and statues?

Many here are talking it up about the Confederate generals being racists and traitors, but...why would the North put up with it? Does anyone have any ideas? Take as much time as you want.