Quran Yes. Hadith No.

[Wasp]

and

fd: You didnt answer the question.

Can you tell me what research you have done to find that "muslims will lump all of those phrases into one group called non muslims"?

==

I've given you a link to a book on the subject, and I've given you three phrases you can find with a search engine. I've also made several extensive posts - in good faith - to try to give a sense of the basics of these topics in cognitive science.

I'm not willing to talk only about those branches of science with which you happen to already be familiar. I'm also not willing to drag you up to speed on branches of science for which you are not familiar.

Go study tacit knowledge, implicit learning, and perceptual learning.

The world doesn't revolve around only those ideas you happen to know.

It's not credible imo to insist on a specific supposedly scientific fact without being able to explain it properly and to refer to something people can actually see. It's a bit too much to expect me, for instance, who happens to find the entire hypothesis useless and empty, to go and read an entire book about it. Especially since I'll probably come back with, "it still makes no sense" besides for all the time I wasted. Surely there is more information out there regarding this scientific fact other than this one book?

 

[Wasp]

So in the Quran, "people who do not believe in Allah" are slurred, over and over again. Our brains will absolutely pick up the pattern and draw a conclusion. You and I are communicating via words. I've used the phrase "non-Muslim". I just used the phrase "people who do not believe in Allah". We don't really know what phrase - if any - the brain uses. Because, it's tacit. But the brain makes associations and generalizations all the time. It's what brains do. It's how we function.

There's a great difference between non-Muslims and people who don't believe in Allah.

But forgetting all that, why do you think you're not the victim of this pattern thing?

 

[icehorse]

SO you recommend Muslims read some Islam hating crxp book that you have read and quote as some stupid kind of authority, yeah right!!

Lyndon please. Cognitive science doesn't hate Islam

 

[stvdv]

And there there are those who argue everyone should obey the verses which they claim are precise and literal.

Oh yes, I know, many people like to tell others what they should do. But that is not what is said in verse 3:07

 

[icehorse]

It's not credible imo to insist on a specific supposedly scientific fact without being able to explain it properly and to refer to something people can actually see. It's a bit too much to expect me, for instance, who happens to find the entire hypothesis useless and empty, to go and read an entire book about it. Especially since I'll probably come back with, "it still makes no sense" besides for all the time I wasted. Surely there is more information out there regarding this scientific fact other than this one book?

As I said, the book is a starting point. And as I've ALSO said - a few times now - these are concepts you can find using your search engine. I believe I've given a reasonable explanation of the ideas. My guess is that you understand the ideas I've presented, you just don't agree with them. That's fine. You can search for them. It's not my job to bring you up to speed on cognitive science, and it's nonsense for you to hope that the rest of us will limit our arguments to only what you happen to know.

 

[icehorse]

There's a great difference between non-Muslims and people who don't believe in Allah.

But forgetting all that, why do you think you're not the victim of this pattern thing?

We ALL have to watch out for propaganda, that's for sure!

 

[Wasp]

We ALL have to watch out for propaganda, that's for sure!

But what make you think........ And so on as my question went?

 

[Wasp]

As I said, the book is a starting point. And as I've ALSO said - a few times now - these are concepts you can find using your search engine. I believe I've given a reasonable explanation of the ideas. My guess is that you understand the ideas I've presented, you just don't agree with them. That's fine. You can search for them. It's not my job to bring you up to speed on cognitive science, and it's nonsense for you to hope that the rest of us will limit our arguments to only what you happen to know.

But you should be able to explain it. People only say search it yourself if a) they don't know enough about it or b)it's a common topic, like someone asking who was prophet Abraham.

 

[icehorse]

But you should be able to explain it. People only say search it yourself if a) they don't know enough about it or b)it's a common topic, like someone asking who was prophet Abraham.

Would you like me to explain complex computer programming concepts to you as well? How about Einstein's theory of relatvity?

Some topics are intrinsically complex. So c - the third reason - it's complex.

 

[firedragon]

and

fd: You didnt answer the question.

Can you tell me what research you have done to find that "muslims will lump all of those phrases into one group called non muslims"?

==

I've given you a link to a book on the subject, and I've given you three phrases you can find with a search engine. I've also made several extensive posts - in good faith - to try to give a sense of the basics of these topics in cognitive science.

I'm not willing to talk only about those branches of science with which you happen to already be familiar. I'm also not willing to drag you up to speed on branches of science for which you are not familiar.

Go study tacit knowledge, implicit learning, and perceptual learning.

The world doesn't revolve around only those ideas you happen to know.

Your link is not research about the cognitive experience others but yours. You have looked at it and formed your own reality. To measure other peoples realities you have to do qualitative and quantitative research or some proper experiments. You have formed what you think is real but its your own false truth.

In order to perceive a book the way you are perceiving someone has to see the patterns you are seeing (I mean you). But without a research you would not know if the others are seeing that way. And I can tell you that people dont because they are actually not that stupid. You are absolutely wrong because your knowledge of the Quran and Muslims is so low to consider. First do a research with Muslims to find out how they react to each of those sentences or groups. Then generalise it to a fair number to achieve statistical validity, the make your assumptions. At least that. Also, try and understand how a person reads the book. They dont read misinterpreted snapshots like you. They read each verse so the cognition of the data is very different from yours. So do a research to find if indeed this is how people build their truths rather than imposing your personal false reality upon others.

Your personal experience you gather your anecdotal hypothesis from is only giving you a false reality. This is nothing but experimenter bias.

Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

You expect him to quote three different translation on 500 different parts.

No. But thanks.

 

[Shia Islam]

If you believe in the twelve imams, do you think they're infallible?

Hi there,
An Imam in Shia islam is very similar to a prophet..
God will not send someone who is not infallible and ask people to unconditionally obey him, and he would not appoint such a person as a successor to a prophet..

There are many verses in the Quran that clearly makes us know that Ahlulbayt Imams are infallible.

This include the verse of Tathir, i.e.; purification.

However, the debate between the Muslims and the Quranists-who with respect, are not even considered Muslims by all the Islamic sects- should first address the main point of Difference, that is the Hadith..
Then the Haidth itself would provide many answers to the Quranists.

 

[Wasp]

Would you like me to explain complex computer programming concepts to you as well? How about Einstein's theory of relatvity?

Some topics are intrinsically complex. So c - the third reason - it's complex.

Only if you don't understand it well enough.

 

[Wasp]

No. But thanks.

I wouldn't mind.. Oh but we do have that blog post to go by.

 

[firedragon]

I wouldn't mind.. Oh but we do have that blog post to go by.

OK.

 

[icehorse]

Your personal experience you gather your anecdotal hypothesis from is only giving you a false reality. This is nothing but experimenter bias.

Your entire post is written from the perspective of the "mind", which is of course the most common perspective and usually quite useful.

I'm talking about the distinction between the brain and the mind.

 

[firedragon]

Your entire post is written from the perspective of the "mind", which is of course the most common perspective and usually quite useful.

I'm talking about the distinction between the brain and the mind.

Okay. So how do you know that Muslims worldwide have a brain that sees all those phrases that "YOU SEE" as slur against non-muslims?

Mate. Your personal experience you gather your anecdotal hypothesis from is only giving you a false reality. This is nothing but experimenter bias.

 

[icehorse]

Only if you don't understand it well enough.

You are a skeptical audience - which makes sense. The world's leading experts on tacit learning could not explain this to you - a skeptical audience - with a few posts on a forum.

That doesn't make the science wrong nor does it make them "not experts".

 

[icehorse]

Okay. So how do you know that Muslims worldwide have a brain that sees all those phrases that "YOU SEE" as slur against non-muslims?

Mate. Your personal experience you gather your anecdotal hypothesis from is only giving you a false reality. This is nothing but experimenter bias.

This has nothing to do with my personal experience. The Quran says what it says. That's not subjective, and I don't think you're arguing in good faith to suggest that it is.

And, this has nothing to do with "Muslim brains", it has to do with brains in general. ANY human brain that reads ANY book with ANY highly repetitive messages is going to learn those messages.

What cognitive scientists are pursuing is to understand better how and why propaganda, and brain-washing and indoctrination work. IMO, Mohammad was a brilliant politician and general. He understood propaganda, and he used it in his book. Trump won the election using it. Cambridge Analytica used it.

 

[firedragon]

This has nothing to do with my personal experience. The Quran says what it says. That's not subjective, and I don't think you're arguing in good faith to suggest that it is.

And, this has nothing to do with "Muslim brains", it has to do with brains in general. ANY human brain that reads ANY book with ANY highly repetitive messages is going to learn those messages.

What cognitive scientists are pursuing is to understand better how and why propaganda, and brain-washing and indoctrination work. IMO, Mohammad was a brilliant politician and general. He understood propaganda, and he used it in his book. Trump won the election using it. Cambridge Analytica used it.

Nope. You have made some assumptions without any research because Quran doesn't say what you say. You made that up or you are copying someone else lie. Your link has said a lot of lies and you just dont know it because you haven't done the research.

Your whole perception is based on a hypothesis based not on research but your personal opinion. Your hypothesis is your opinion. Thats your experimenter bias.

Rest is a new irrelevant topic you have brought in.