Quran Yes. Hadith No.

[Wasp]

In that case, you must despise non-Muslims, because the Quran advises you to do so over 500 times.

No. It doesn't.

 

[Wasp]

Which hadith teaches this? Can you provide a reference?

It didn't occur to me to even ask. But why were they Sunni Muslims? I'm amazed they weren't <wahabbis>.

 

[Lyndon]

wahabis are Sunni Muslim

 

[Wasp]

wahabis are Sunni Muslim

Wahabis are in your dreams.

They dont exist.

 

[Ponder This]

According to Surat Ali-Imran and Surat An'Nisa, and basically the WHOLE Quran make the existence of the Hadith HARAM. Why? Simply because they added new sins. That is creating a lie or falsehood against Allah.

Ask yourself, what's more important, the word of GOD or the jumbled up inaccuracies of the man-made hadith? No question about it.

Plain and simple. Quran is complete and perfect with "clear verses" and "clear signs."

Didn't He mention in the Quran how he divided the Pople of the Scriptures and caused them confusion and fight amongst each other?

Here's what I'm going to point out about that:
#1 Sunni Islam
#2 Shiite Islam
#3 Sufiism
#4 War in Syria
#5 War in Iraq
#6 Extremists

I saw a video of a non-Sunni carrying grocerie . He walked through a make shift checkpoint operated by Sunni militia. Simply because he wasn't like them when he was asked to identify himself, they shot and killed him. No weapon. Just food for his family. That's NOT the Quran. That's 100% the blasphemy found in the "Hadith."

Think for yourself.

Educate yourself.

Use COMMON SENSE.

ALLAH (swt) told us this was gonna happen when he made it happen to the others that changed the word of God.

Think for yourself.

The essence of Islam is surrender to God. Anything else is your own fault. If you rely on intermediaries to tell you what to believe, whether is is angels, djinn, spirits, other people, even Prophets, instead of sincere prayer, then you've gone astray. If someone quotes the Qu'ran to you and you say, "Surely I will rely on this 'person other than God' to tell me the word of God", then you have ascribed a partner unto God. Am I right? Don't take my word for it. Think for yourself. Ask of God.

 

[icehorse]

No. It doesn't.

Yes it does:

An Inquiry Into Islam: Search results for intolerance

 

[stvdv]

Plain and simple. Quran is complete and perfect with "clear verses" and "clear signs."

There are also "unclear" verses IMO, luckily Koran advises to "skip" these

Think for yourself.

Educate yourself.

Use COMMON SENSE.

This works for me.

I do not need Hadith to understand essence of Koran. I do need my conscience, discrimination and common sense.

 

[stvdv]

To me, the Quran is very clearly NOT a book of peace, but a book of war. If the Quran is your only guide, I'm confused as to how you can follow it AND treat non-believers as brothers and sisters, since that's very clearly NOT the theme of the book?

That said, I appreciate your peaceful intentions.

To me it is obvious that it is a lot about war. Which seems useful at that time, as there were lots of barbarians. So Koran was a good first step to improve morals and conduct in that area.

I believe you are correct. What that means however, is that those who read it with a peaceful intent came to the book with that peaceful intent already in their hearts, and they have to cherry-pick the book dramatically to find a peaceful intent in it. The book does not support a person with peaceful intentions. The peaceful must work hard to extract a peaceful intention from the book. Because, as I said earlier, if you take the entire book at face value, it is a book of war.

Agreed. I really need to skip lots to find some jewels. Cherry-pick is the right word for me. Koran is for me a good challenge not to judge Muslims and Islam, and at the same time discriminate which verses to accept and which not; see it in the proper perspective and time. And use lots of common sense.

In that case, you must despise non-Muslims, because the Quran advises you to do so over 500 times.

These verses I can not believe to be Divine inspired. After all Muhammad was a human being, not perfect at birth, if I understand correctly. He was given verses by God, he was not God himself, so errors could have been made IMO.

Bhagavat Gita was also book about war. But for me cherry-picking is much easier.

 

[firedragon]

If you are willing to 'really' think for yourself one would be a humanist.

The reality is that Islam is divided into diverse conflicting, and contradictory sects, and sometimes violently divided. In the contemporary world Islam does not offer consistent unified spiritual guidance. It is a religion of the past.

Everything is divided in that case.

 

[Wasp]

Yes it does:

An Inquiry Into Islam: Search results for intolerance

What can I say. You're wrong. Read the book, not a blog about it. And since I have the book for anyone to try and teach me about it they'd have to point the things out of the book not ask me to switch the book. For some reason no one has ever done that.

 

[Shia Islam]

According to Surat Ali-Imran and Surat An'Nisa, and basically the WHOLE Quran make the existence of the Hadith HARAM. Why? Simply because they added new sins. That is creating a lie or falsehood against Allah.

Ask yourself, what's more important, the word of GOD or the jumbled up inaccuracies of the man-made hadith? No question about it.

Plain and simple. Quran is complete and perfect with "clear verses" and "clear signs."

Didn't He mention in the Quran how he divided the Pople of the Scriptures and caused them confusion and fight amongst each other?

Here's what I'm going to point out about that:
#1 Sunni Islam
#2 Shiite Islam
#3 Sufiism
#4 War in Syria
#5 War in Iraq
#6 Extremists

I saw a video of a non-Sunni carrying grocerie . He walked through a make shift checkpoint operated by Sunni militia. Simply because he wasn't like them when he was asked to identify himself, they shot and killed him. No weapon. Just food for his family. That's NOT the Quran. That's 100% the blasphemy found in the "Hadith."

Think for yourself.

Educate yourself.

Use COMMON SENSE.

ALLAH (swt) told us this was gonna happen when he made it happen to the others that changed the word of God.

Think for yourself.

As a Shia Muslim, what makes me uncomfortable is that people is not trying to hear the Shiite narrative.

For believers, the Quran is clear to be the word of God.

On the other hand, it is clear that the Quran is talking about some broad topics and headlines that are needed to be interpret.


Moreover, the Quran is explaining to us that some God chosen people are meant to interpret the Quran.

All in all, there must be explanatory Hadith to the Quran, and successors to the prophet.

As all the previous prophets, have successors.

The Sunni Caliphs ordered their followers to burn the Hadith!!!

They did not only burn the Hadith, they burnt even the writings of the other nations..just read about how they burnt the libraries of Alexandria and Persia?!

In addition, they claimed that God and his prophet did not appoint a successor to lead the Muslims after the death of Muhammad (s).

What is more, is that they claim that all of those tyrannical so-called caliphs are legitimate leaders that the Muslims of that time were obliged to obey!

I don’t ask people to accept the answers that Shia Islam present to this dilemma, but I ask them to read those answers.

Regards,

 

[Wasp]

As a Shia Muslim, what makes me uncomfortable is that people is not trying to hear the Shiite narrative.

For believers, the Quran is clear to be the word of God.

On the other hand, it is clear that the Quran is talking about some broad topics and headlines that are needed to be interpret.


Moreover, the Quran is explaining to us that some God chosen people are meant to interpret the Quran.

All in all, there must be explanatory Hadith to the Quran, and successors to the prophet.

As all the previous prophets, have successors.

The Sunni Caliphs ordered their followers to burn the Hadith!!!

They did not only burn the Hadith, they burnt even the writings of the other nations..just read about how they burnt the libraries of Alexandria and Persia?!

In addition, they claimed that God and his prophet did not appoint a successor to lead the Muslims after the death of Muhammad (s).

What is more, is that they claim that all of those tyrannical so-called caliphs are legitimate leaders that the Muslims of that time were obliged to obey!

I don’t ask people to accept the answers that Shia Islam present to this dilemma, but I ask them to read those answers.

Regards,

If you believe in the twelve imams, do you think they're infallible?

 

[firedragon]

There are also "unclear" verses IMO, luckily Koran advises to "skip" these

Can you give an example of an "unclear verse"? And where does it say to "skip" them?

 

[icehorse]

What can I say. You're wrong. Read the book, not a blog about it. And since I have the book for anyone to try and teach me about it they'd have to point the things out of the book not ask me to switch the book. For some reason no one has ever done that.

I have read the book. In fact I have three different translations. And I took the list that I provided you and I spot checked it against the book. It's an accurate list.

I have to say that I've had this debate many times. It's always struck me that apologists have a tough time trying to convince us that the book doesn't say what it says.

 

[Wasp]

I have read the book. In fact I have three different translations. And I took the list that I provided you and I spot checked it against the book. It's an accurate list.

I have to say that I've had this debate many times. It's always struck me that apologists have a tough time trying to convince us that the book doesn't say what it says.

Read it again. Why would you have three translations of it? If you're not even a sincere student? Seems like a waste of space. And copies.

 

[firedragon]

In that case, you must despise non-Muslims, because the Quran advises you to do so over 500 times.

I think a list you found on the internet is due? And you have checked it with your three Quran translations you said right? So you like lists off the internet website of your pleasure.

Whats the point of checking the verses with translations? You think the issue you have only is a translation issue?

You said you have read the Quran. And you have 3 translations. Can you tell me what an idolator or as you very well know a Mushrik is?

And if you wish you can begin a thread with one verse from your so called list that has 500 verses that says "I as a Muslim MUST despise non-muslims as the Quran advises me too". So lets see where that goes.

 

[stvdv]

There are also "unclear" verses IMO, luckily Koran advises to "skip" these

Can you give an example of an "unclear verse"? And where does it say to "skip" them?

Surah Ali 'Imran [3:7]

SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

(@icehorse) Reading this line, it seems to me that I am advised NOT to follow (so skip) "unspecific" (so not precise) verses

 

[firedragon]

Surah Ali 'Imran [3:7]

(@icehorse) Reading this line, it seems to me that I am advised NOT to follow (so skip) "unspecific" (so not precise) verses

This is what you quoted "But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord"

The question was "Can you give an example of an "unclear verse"? And where does it say to "skip" them?"

Do you understand brother. The verse you quoted from the Quran is preaching the opposite to what was said. IT doesn't say to "skip them".

Anyway, you are talking about Muhkam and Muthasabih verses. Muthasabih also means "dual". And its said so that we dont pride ourselves with arrogant conviction but keep thinking and using our God given intellect.

Anyway, it doesn't say to "skip them".

Peace.

 

[stvdv]

As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].

This is what you quoted "But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord"

I quoted all, BUT the red part clearly instructs about specific and unspecific verses.

The specific verses are the foundation. I rather stick to the foundation (as per instruction of Koran). So understandably I feel no need even to give example of unspecific verses.

Koran tells there are unspecific verses, so all can find out for themselves.

 

[Wasp]

Surah Ali 'Imran [3:7]

(@icehorse) Reading this line, it seems to me that I am advised NOT to follow (so skip) "unspecific" (so not precise) verses

It advises neither to skip nor to not follow. It advises, to put it simply, to study carefully.