Quran from the devil

[fullyveiled muslimah]

The Quran is from the devil

A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

 

[cardero]

While you are waiting for someone to respond fullyveiled muslimah, I was curious as to what you would deem to be demonic workings.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

I should think that is a fairly uncommon opinion, from discussions I've had in the past. Not that I am particularly qualified to sum up Christian thought on the matter (or that one can even do that, given the great deal of different opinions within the religion), but still. It's not something I personally have ever encountered before.

 

[YmirGF]

A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

Well I would never tell you that Islam is "the work of the devil" but I might insist that it was the work a brilliant confidence man or "Con man". Islam, imho, is an example of the con being conned by the con. I will say till my last dying breath that Prophet Muhammed {pbuh} was a genius on par with a Newton or Einstein but a man who was also certifiably insane. A rather stunning and frightening combination. Think about it for a second or two. Think about what such an individual would be capable of even if you cannot direct that gaze at your beloved Prophet. Frankly, there is no telling what such a person could do. They sky IS the limit, especially if those around him were not the brightest crayons in the pack.

My own unease with Islam begins with the original vision of Gabriel in the cave. I have seen many things that would make many of your hearts skip a few beats and yet never have I been afraid of what I have seen. That alone makes me question the validity of Prophet Muhammed {pbuh}'s vision and makes me question his own understanding of his visions.

I remain wholly unimpressed by the argument that an "illiterate" man could not produce a "book" and I reject that argument and deem those who promote that idea as being not terribly creative or imaginative. Just because most people could not do this, does not mean that some of us could not.

I am also disturbed by Islam's stunted views on human sexuality. The sexuality laws amount to kiss and tell = kiss and die, especially as far as homosexuals are concerned. It is all so very handy to believe that as long as a good Muslim does not get caught or openly declare their homosexuality then it is between them and Allah. To me, that is a built in "hamstringing" and tanatamont to a psychological straightjacket. Considering that more than 10% of the Muslim population base is caught within this moral dilemma it does not bode well.

I also personally object to the "this is the way it is" attitude of Islam. The individual simply cannot cherry pick Islamic thought and still claim to be a genuine Muslim. It is not possible and those who do so are fooling themselves.

Likewise hearing about the "perfect quidelines or rules" for society makes me shiver. Um, perfect for whom exactly? That worldview is most certainly not perfect from a non-muslim viewpoint... in fact many of us deem it to be FAR from perfect and somewhat primitive and often barbaric. The amusing part is that we are somewhat chastised and cheekily told that we are misunderstanding the "true" Islam. Anyone who wants a quick study of Islam, might just skip the Qur'an and move directly to Sharia Law. If Sharia Law does not curl your hair I really don't know what will.

Ohhh well... hmmm. Is Islam dangerous? Hmmm. Sadly, yes it is as it does NOT allow for people like me. I am impossible in Islamic terms. I shouldn't exist and yet here I am. Personally I see little illumination in Islam and even less enlightenment. There certainly is a bankruptcy of imagination or creative thought however.

To be totally clear, to me, hearing Muslims tell me how great Islam is is very much like ardent fans of the 70's "bubble-gum" band The Bay City Rollers telling me what a great band they were. *sigh*

 

[*Paul*]

I should think that is a fairly uncommon opinion, from discussions I've had in the past. Not that I am particularly qualified to sum up Christian thought on the matter (or that one can even do that, given the great deal of different opinions within the religion), but still. It's not something I personally have ever encountered before.

Here is my biblical perspective:

Jn 8v44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The koran denies the sonship of Jesus Christ but says God has no Son:
25.2: He, Whose is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and Who did not take to Himself a son, and Who has no associate in the kingdom, and Who created everything, then ordained for it a measure.
19.88: And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son.
19.89: Certainly you have made an abominable assertion
19.90: The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,
19.91: That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God.
19.92: And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.

1Jn 2v21: I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1Jn 5v10: He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

What is this witness that God gave of His Son?

Mt 17v5: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

To which Peter testifies:

2Pt 1v17-18: For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

You say he is the Christ but deny the biblical definition of who Christ is:
Mt 16v15-16: He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mt 26v63: But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Jn 4v42: And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Jn 11v27: She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

So biblically speaking you deny the Christ.

The koran says that allah says god (he) has no son and it is abominable to say so, int he bible God Himself says this is my Son. According to 1John :10 the koran and the being that gave it to mohammed is a liar and no lie is of God.

Isa 9v6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Ps 2v12: Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

For this reason the koran can not of come from the being we worship as God and Father but does have a supernatural originit is fromt he devil

 

[darkpenguin]

From what I've seen on the news etc. the Quran has been used to justify attacks and killings. Does this make the book evil? No! It makes the people who use it to justify their actions evil.

But then again in my opinion evil is necessary to keep a balance as without evil there is nothing on which to judge what is good!

 

[Halcyon]

I think i'll have to disagree with most of your post her Paul, which isn't something that happens very often.

Well I would never tell you that Islam is "the work of the devil" but I might insist that it was the work a brilliant confidence man or "Con man". Islam, imho, is an example of the con being conned by the con. I will say till my last dying breath that Prophet Muhammed {pbuh} was a genius on par with a Newton or Einstein but a man who was also certifiably insane. A rather stunning and frightening combination.

I don't believe Muhammed was attempting to con or trick anyone, nor that he was insane. IMHO the Koran is one man's understanding of God, a quite beautiful understanding at that, if a little outdated and culturally distinct in its thinking (sorry if this offends, my personal opinion). He had a genuine belief and personal understanding of God that has many fascinating features.

My own unease with Islam begins with the original vision of Gabriel in the cave. I have seen many things that would make many of your hearts skip a few beats and yet never have I been afraid of what I have seen. That alone makes me question the validity of Prophet Muhammed {pbuh}'s vision and makes me question his own understanding of his visions.

Could not God cause fear as well as peace with a vision?
Each person is different, it's only to be expected that if God were to give a vision then He would tailor that vision to the person to give the desired result. If Muhammed needed to be scared to believe his vision was real, then that's what needed to be done.

I remain wholly unimpressed by the argument that an "illiterate" man could not produce a "book" and I reject that argument and deem those who promote that idea as being not terribly creative or imaginative. Just because most people could not do this, does not mean that some of us could not.

Personally, i think this may be a myth that built up around Muhammed soon after his death, in a similar way to the Virgin Birth with Jesus - it lends an air of mystery to the man, makes him greater than other men and helps promote his authenticity.
I could not write anything like the Koran, i'd find it just an impressive acheivement if he wrote it himself.

I am also disturbed by Islam's stunted views on human sexuality. The sexuality laws amount to kiss and tell = kiss and die, especially as far as homosexuals are concerned. It is all so very handy to believe that as long as a good Muslim does not get caught or openly declare their homosexuality then it is between them and Allah. To me, that is a built in "hamstringing" and tanatamont to a psychological straightjacket. Considering that more than 10% of the Muslim population base is caught within this moral dilemma it does not bode well.

I agree with this, but we find the same thing in the Bible. And since all three Abrahamic religions have common ground, it would be odd if there was not a condemnation of homosexuality in Islam. Considering that Islam originated 1,400 years ago, the attitude is not surprising.

I also personally object to the "this is the way it is" attitude of Islam. The individual simply cannot cherry pick Islamic thought and still claim to be a genuine Muslim. It is not possible and those who do so are fooling themselves.

A true Muslim is anyone who recites "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger".
The differences in belief are greater than you think. Consider the differences between Muslims in the Middle East and those in Turkey, Bosnia, or Indonesia. And the differences between Sufi's, Sunni's, Shi'ites.

Likewise hearing about the "perfect quidelines or rules" for society makes me shiver. Um, perfect for whom exactly? That worldview is most certainly not perfect from a non-muslim viewpoint... in fact many of us deem it to be FAR from perfect and somewhat primitive and often barbaric. The amusing part is that we are somewhat chastised and cheekily told that we are misunderstanding the "true" Islam. Anyone who wants a quick study of Islam, might just skip the Qur'an and move directly to Sharia Law. If Sharia Law does not curl your hair I really don't know what will.

Some Sharia Law is barbaric, it originates in a very different time and culture to our own, and arguably some of it does not belong in Islam but was added to suit certain leaders at specific times.
Most of Sharia Law is to do with forms of worship and ritual - how someone should dress and conduct themselves in the fashion of a Muslim.
Some Sharia Law gives rights to men over women, other parts give women rights that they did not have for centuries in Christendom, for example;

The guardian may choose a suitable partner for a virgin girl, but the girl is free to contest and has the right to say 'no'.
The guardian cannot marry the divorced woman or the widow if she didn't ask to be married.

Ohhh well... hmmm. Is Islam dangerous? Hmmm. Sadly, yes it is as it does NOT allow for people like me. I am impossible in Islamic terms. I shouldn't exist and yet here I am. Personally I see little illumination in Islam and even less enlightenment. There certainly is a bankruptcy of imagination or creative thought however.

Explore Sufism Paul, you'll see the Koran, Muhammed and Islam in a whole new light.

 

[standing_on_one_foot]

For this reason the koran can not of come from the being we worship as God and Father but does have a supernatural originit is fromt he devil

Interesting. Perhaps people have merely been too tactful in my discussions to mention it outright. I have certainly heard people disagree and disbelieve, I have simply never heard so specific a demonic origin proposed.

 

[michel]

A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

I would be interested to know which Christian said that.............It is, of course, and absurdly petulant statement.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Halcyon....You just said what i need to say, thanks..

*Paul*...you tried to prove that Jesus is the son of God, and showed that the Quran opposes this...I dont want to start a debate in this issue, since we are here discussing whether you think or not that Quran is from devil...
And not believing in some religion, doesn't mean it originates from some devil source

(by the way, I can prove that Jesus is not the son by the same bible you use)

Anyway, YmirGF, it's a bad attitude you are having against Islam which disappoints me...

Well I would never tell you that Islam is "the work of the devil" but I might insist that it was the work a brilliant confidence man or "Con man". Islam, imho, is an example of the con being conned by the con. I will say till my last dying breath that Prophet Muhammed {pbuh} was a genius on par with a Newton or Einstein but a man who was also certifiably insane. A rather stunning and frightening combination.

You don't think the Quran is from devil....and thats the answer, we don't ask you to believe it's from God, or from prophet Mohammed, so I didnt like your proposed theories..

My own unease with Islam begins with the original vision of Gabriel in the cave. I have seen many things that would make many of your hearts skip a few beats and yet never have I been afraid of what I have seen. That alone makes me question the validity of Prophet Muhammed {pbuh}'s vision and makes me question his own understanding of his visions.

If you read the story of the prophecy of Mosses, you will also see the same heart beats, and the same scary beginning, but without Gabriel, with God directly..

I am also disturbed by Islam's stunted views on human sexuality. The sexuality laws amount to kiss and tell = kiss and die, especially as far as homosexuals are concerned. It is all so very handy to believe that as long as a good Muslim does not get caught or openly declare their homosexuality then it is between them and Allah. To me, that is a built in "hamstringing" and tanatamont to a psychological straightjacket. Considering that more than 10% of the Muslim population base is caught within this moral dilemma it does not bode well.

It's normal too to disagree with Islamic Share'a, since you are not muslim....
But notice that most of these moral laws are set also in the bible...

Ohhh well... hmmm. Is Islam dangerous? Hmmm. Sadly, yes it is as it does NOT allow for people like me. I am impossible in Islamic terms. I shouldn't exist and yet here I am. Personally I see little illumination in Islam and even less enlightenment. There certainly is a bankruptcy of imagination or creative thought however.

It doesn't allow people like you? what do you mean exactly?
We muslims in muslim countries can live side byside with jews, christians, atheists, or any other believing..Moreover, we are orderd to treat them peacfully and lovely..

I dont ask people to convert of islam...I don't even have the enough skills to convince them...All we are asking here is just gaining some respect to it, and removing this bad attitude towards it...

For example, most people think we hate jews, which is absolutly wrong, how can we hate people who believes in our same God, and we respect judaism and prophet Mosses, so by the way, we respect jews...

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Interesting. Perhaps people have merely been too tactful in my discussions to mention it outright. I have certainly heard people disagree and disbelieve, I have simply never heard so specific a demonic origin proposed.

:yes: ...me too

 

[Sunstone]

The notion the Quran is from the devil speaks volumes about those who believe that notion, and very little about the Quran.

 

[Gentoo]

I have a hard time believing that any holy book is of the Devil. In fact, hearing/reading someone saying it says volumes about them personally.

 

[jacquie4000]

The Quran is from the devil?

Then...A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

To say Allah is the devil which I think most of us know translates to God in other religions is absurd, and only leads to more arguements. Sometimes I feel it is in some of your nature to want to fight....Most people know what Allah means and the whole statement to me seems to be just silly..............Another way to start a fight that then you want to defend. Sorry but that is the way I feel.

 

[Katzpur]

A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

People believe my scriptures are from the devil, too, muslimah. Some people are stupid; that's about all I can say.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

Personally, I think there are two kinds of gods in this world. There is the Personal God (the God that communes with Man) and there are the gods of principality. Gods of principality are gods that govern certain cultures, cities, nations, ethnic groups, ideas (such as love, honor, justice, beauty, war, etc), environments (such as oceans, mountains, waterfalls, hills, lakes, etc), and cultic faiths designed for a specific purpose as dictated by the founder/leader or whatever. I think of Allah as a god of principality. I also think of the Yahweh as a god of principality, i.e. the god of the Jews. Some Christians think the same way as I, except they view all these kinds of gods as demons, devils, or fiends of one kind or another. I don't think gods of principality are evil, I just don't think they are interested in a personal relationship with Man. But that’s just my own personal belief.

 

[Booko]

A christian member here on RF said this about Quran. I was wondering is this a general thought about Quran? Do some christians also think that Allah is a devil or Islam is demonic?

Not among Christians of my acquaintance, no. At the worst, they just think that the Quran is not inspired by God in any way, but that's to be expected.

The most common misconception I run across regarding Allah is that it's not *really* God, but is either some sort of faux God or refers to one of the idols in the Qaaba that Muhammad (pbuh) destroyed.

My counter to this is to point out that Arabic speaking Christians pray to Allah, so someone really should tell them to stop doing that. :sarcastic That usually clears up matters, or sends those who do not want to be confused by actual facts off to other pastures.

Yeah, I've actually heard a few Christians say that Islam is demonic and that Muhammad was inspired by the devil. I can count them on one hand. But then, the same people have expressed some other...er....odd views on other subjects. Stuff like HIV was invented in US military labs and deliberately used to infect people in sub-Saharan Africa.

 

[Sunstone]

If the Quran is inspired by the devil, the devil is a whole lot wiser than we usually give him credit for being, for the Quran has much wisdom in it.

 

[YmirGF]

I think i'll have to disagree with most of your post her Paul, which isn't something that happens very often.

Well, one cannot win 'em all now can one?

I don't believe Muhammed was attempting to con or trick anyone, nor that he was insane. IMHO the Koran is one man's understanding of God, a quite beautiful understanding at that, if a little outdated and culturally distinct in its thinking (sorry if this offends, my personal opinion). He had a genuine belief and personal understanding of God that has many fascinating features.

I am happy you don't think Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] was not a con artist. I think he was, so I guess we will just agree to disagree. Frankly, I see little beauty in the Qur'an or Islam itself. In all fairness Prophet Muhammed [pbuh]'s views regarding god are not my experience of that topic. Try to appreciate that my thinking is not based on simple intellectual speculation but come from my own direct experience. Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] and my own experience are "at odds" and I do not feel that way regarding the Christ, Krsna or Buddha... so someone has something very wrong.

Could not God cause fear as well as peace with a vision?
Each person is different, it's only to be expected that if God were to give a vision then He would tailor that vision to the person to give the desired result. If Muhammed needed to be scared to believe his vision was real, then that's what needed to be done.

It is my experience that if one encounters visions that frighten or unsettle the beholder then, in general terms, they are unfit or not ready for those experiences because of their penchant to distort those experiences beyond credulity. Pity there are no recognized "experts" on visions. The sudden appearance of a so-called "angelic being" would not suprise me for more than a few moments. I have personally seen things well beyond such minor psychological constructs. I guess it would blow the socks off of a lot of people though. *sigh*

Personally, i think this may be a myth that built up around Muhammed soon after his death, in a similar way to the Virgin Birth with Jesus - it lends an air of mystery to the man, makes him greater than other men and helps promote his authenticity.

I do agree that there has been a massive "white-wash" around the life of Prophet Muhammed [pbuh]. As I said before it is like getting the opinion of fans of the Bay City Rollers regarding that band. What else do you expect them to say? I am suprised that Muslims do not see this tiny faux pas regarding their depiction of their beloved Prophet.

I could not write anything like the Koran, i'd find it just an impressive acheivement if he wrote it himself.

I suppose you are easily impressed. Tell me, if Hemingway, Dostoevsky or Tolkien had been illiterate do you not think their creative genius would somehow find a way to shine through? I assert that it would regardless of the fact that they did not learn to read and write. BTW: 23 years to create a thin tomb is not much of a miracle for a genius. Just because most people could not do this is simply not persausive. All you would have to do is keep you facts straight and tell a good story. Others could write down your ramblings. In no way is it essential that such a person would need to know sentence structure of grammar. All he/she would have to do is keep the story straight and speak plainly. Also, oral traditions were the order of the day, so it is not like these folks were not used to "working" in this way.

I agree with this, but we find the same thing in the Bible. And since all three Abrahamic religions have common ground, it would be odd if there was not a condemnation of homosexuality in Islam. Considering that Islam originated 1,400 years ago, the attitude is not surprising.

Yes, but the idea is thoroughly enmeshed into Islamic thought. Many Christians are not terribly opposed to homosexuality, although many are still fairly narrow minded about the whole thing. But please, can we stick to one group for a change without dragging others into the discussion? We can flay the Christians and Jews another day. At least they came by their religions honestly. It is very simple for Islam to "grandfather" its claims as anyone who could reject those claims is long dead, so there is little chance that will happen. Aside from this, Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] is the "final" messenger so it is not like anyone can really dispute what he has to say, although the Bahai's did give it a good shot. Joseph Smith also flies in the face of this "unalterable reality".

A true Muslim is anyone who recites "There is none worthy of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger". The differences in belief are greater than you think. Consider the differences between Muslims in the Middle East and those in Turkey, Bosnia, or Indonesia. And the differences between Sufi's, Sunni's, Shi'ites.

I am quite aware of the different flavors of Islam, but frankly the only branch I would give even the slightest nod to is the Sufi branch.

Some Sharia Law is barbaric, it originates in a very different time and culture to our own, and arguably some of it does not belong in Islam but was added to suit certain leaders at specific times. Most of Sharia Law is to do with forms of worship and ritual - how someone should dress and conduct themselves in the fashion of a Muslim. Some Sharia Law gives rights to men over women, other parts give women rights that they did not have for centuries in Christendom, for example; The guardian may choose a suitable partner for a virgin girl, but the girl is free to contest and has the right to say 'no'. The guardian cannot marry the divorced woman or the widow if she didn't ask to be married.

*sigh* Hmm, I guess you have not read that all aspects of Sharia Law have been validated via the Qur'an and authenticated hadiths. Maybe I missed something though.

Explore Sufism Paul, you'll see the Koran, Muhammed and Islam in a whole new light.

What makes you think I have not already studied about the great Sufi masters and their traditions Paul? Frankly, the Sufi's are the only branch of Islam worthy of serious examination... but that's just my opinion.

 

[maro]

Frankly, the Sufi's are the only branch of Islam worthy of serious examination... but that's just my opinion.

sometimes i think you deserve pitty more than a reply...but that's just my opinion