Quran from the devil

[YmirGF]

sometimes i think you deserve pitty more than a reply...but that's just my opinion

Hehe. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Halcyon]

In all fairness Prophet Muhammed [pbuh]'s views regarding god are not my experience of that topic. Try to appreciate that my thinking is not based on simple intellectual speculation but come from my own direct experience. Prophet Muhammed [pbuh] and my own experience are "at odds" and I do not feel that way regarding the Christ, Krsna or Buddha... so someone has something very wrong.

I don't think anyone has gotten anything wrong, but i do think many people are taking are far too limited view of God.
Paul, i do appreciate that you have had an experience of the divine - but i had hoped that you would see that experience in its contextual light. You are a single, limited, 4-dimensional, mortal entity - if God were a man, you would be a quark in relation to Him.
I had hoped you would see that your experience is as individual and personal to you as your taste in clothing. God is infinite, She can and does appear to each individual in a unique way. Your experience isn't the be-all and end-all of God's totality. Just because you do not recognise the presence of God in a vision or experience does not mean God isn't there, it just means you don't see it.

It is my experience that if one encounters visions that frighten or unsettle the beholder then, in general terms, they are unfit or not ready for those experiences because of their penchant to distort those experiences beyond credulity. Pity there are no recognized "experts" on visions. The sudden appearance of a so-called "angelic being" would not suprise me for more than a few moments. I have personally seen things well beyond such minor psychological constructs. I guess it would blow the socks off of a lot of people though. *sigh*

Like i said, your experience is your experience. What may seem minor to you is all that someone else needs to fully understand. And what may seem like a magnificent wonder to you may be piffle to another.

I suppose you are easily impressed.

Yes, I am.

Yes, but the idea is thoroughly enmeshed into Islamic thought. Many Christians are not terribly opposed to homosexuality, although many are still fairly narrow minded about the whole thing. But please, can we stick to one group for a change without dragging others into the discussion? We can flay the Christians and Jews another day.

It's cultural Paul. Do you honestly think that Christians in Palestine do not hold the same opinion of homosexuals as their Muslim countrymen?

At least they came by their religions honestly. It is very simple for Islam to "grandfather" its claims as anyone who could reject those claims is long dead, so there is little chance that will happen.

Christians came by their religion more honestly than Muslims???

*sigh* Hmm, I guess you have not read that all aspects of Sharia Law have been validated via the Qur'an and authenticated hadiths. Maybe I missed something though.

Indeed, you missed the millions of Muslims worldwide who do not practice the barbaric aspects of Sharia Law and those that think those aspects are outdated or even false.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_movements_within_Islam

The Koran is the Holy Word of God to Muslims, but man's interpretation of that Word is not.

What makes you think I have not already studied about the great Sufi masters and their traditions Paul? Frankly, the Sufi's are the only branch of Islam worthy of serious examination... but that's just my opinion.

For people like us, i would agree. But other people cannot follow the mystic way, they require alternative theologies to progress spiritually - everybody is different.

I don't understand how you can have studied the Sufi's and Islamic concept of God, and still have such a negative view of Islam.

 

[KPereira]

From what I've seen on the news etc. the Quran has been used to justify attacks and killings. Does this make the book evil? No! It makes the people who use it to justify their actions evil.

But then again in my opinion evil is necessary to keep a balance as without evil there is nothing on which to judge what is good!

In my opinion, no. People can interpret anything to suit their needs. Someone could justify killing people using the Bible too. 'Do unto others as they do unto you' is the most common example of it. Kids use it a lot, from my experience.

So having said that, does that make the Bible evil? Surely not.

Fullyveiled muslimah...do not take one person's stupid comments and label everyone of the group. I have always stressed that even if I do not agree with someone else's beliefs, I respect them. That is certainly not the opinion of all Christians.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

If you feel unjustly labeled my apologies KPereira. I didn't want to generalise all christians. I pretty much feel like not all christians think that. The statement caught me by surprise though although it didn't really offend me. It is disheartening to think that some christians view islam as an arch enemy, and the best way to discredit it is to say that the very book and thusly the ideas on which it is based are from the devil. I find it an immature alternative to simply disagreeing with it.

I am especially disappointed with Paul comments (not YmirGf). I hold him to be a rather devout and intellignet christian who wouldn't resort to that, but I guess to each his own and you learn something new everyday. Muslims certainly do not feel that the bible or christianity is derived from the devil.

I would like to point out that the only real point of contention between muslims and christians as far as doctrines are concerned is the Jesus issue. Other than that, all other differences are slight at best, and can be worked around. I think that if the basis for belief that the Quran is demonic in nature is in its denial of the divinity of Jesus, then muslims aren't the only ones who follow a satanic messege.

 

[rocka21]

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

[Mathematician]

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Cool, I'm a bad guy.

 

[KPereira]

If you feel unjustly labeled my apologies KPereira. I didn't want to generalise all christians. I pretty much feel like not all christians think that. The statement caught me by surprise though although it didn't really offend me. It is disheartening to think that some christians view islam as an arch enemy, and the best way to discredit it is to say that the very book and thusly the ideas on which it is based are from the devil. I find it an immature alternative to simply disagreeing with it.

I am especially disappointed with Paul comments (not YmirGf). I hold him to be a rather devout and intellignet christian who wouldn't resort to that, but I guess to each his own and you learn something new everyday. Muslims certainly do not feel that the bible or christianity is derived from the devil.

I would like to point out that the only real point of contention between muslims and christians as far as doctrines are concerned is the Jesus issue. Other than that, all other differences are slight at best, and can be worked around. I think that if the basis for belief that the Quran is demonic in nature is in its denial of the divinity of Jesus, then muslims aren't the only ones who follow a satanic messege.

Oh no...I don't feel unjustly labelled at all. I guess the way I wrote that post, it might seem that way, though. A statement like that should offend you. I don't agree with Islam...but I would never say the Quran comes from the devil. That is crossing a line. Yeah, you are right about the Jesus issue. But I think that another cause of contention between Muslims and Christians is ignorance. Perhaps both sides just aren't really educated about each other and you get comments like 'The Quran is from the devil'. Ignorance inspires hatred.

 

[natey]

I can't remember where in the Bible it says it but it talks about Satan taking truth and then twisting it that makes it seem so good. The Qur'an is filled with a lot of interesting things and passages that resemble the Bible, however the main point is it switches Jesus with Muhammad. Instead of Jesus being the main person it's Muhammad. The Bible also points out that Satan means "light-bringer" and that he can parade around as an angel of light. Is this the "angel" that Muhammad saw? Just some things to think about. I'm not going to say that the Qur'an is of the devil but I'm not going to say it's right.

 

[Ori]

There is both good and bad in the Koran ( in my opinion), just as there is good and bad in all of us. It's a reflection upon the person who uses any text for evil.

 

[rocka21]

Cool, I'm a bad guy.

as long you see how CLEAR John was...

 

[Bishka]

as long you see how CLEAR John was...

And as long as you see that Allah=God, God=Allah.

 

[rocka21]

And as long as you see that Allah=God, God=Allah.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


Does the quran, teach that Jesus is the CHRIST?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

1 John 2:22


Does the quran, teach that Jesus is the CHRIST?

Yes. Christ is a title meaning the anointed one. In arabic it is Masih meaning the same thing. The only difference between what the Quran says about Jesus and what Christians say is that Jesus is not God nor a physical son either. Neither Muhammad nor the Quran states anything about Jesus that he himself did not state.

 

[Booko]

Does the quran, teach that Jesus is the CHRIST?

I count no less than 11 occasions when the Qu'ran refers to "Christ", some of which are "Christ Jesus," one just "Christ" and others "Christ, the son of Mary."

For example:

45. Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 3)




So, *ahem*...having taken a few moments and a concordance to throughly explore the possibility that the Qu'ran denies that Jesus is the Christ, we can now move on to explode the next misconception...:sarcastic

Seriously, there are sites where you can go search the Qu'ran for yourself. It's not like anyone has to spend actual cash to buy a concordance these days.

 

[Bishka]

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


Does the quran, teach that Jesus is the CHRIST?

Looks like they've answered that question for you.

 

[rocka21]

Looks like they've answered that question for you.

13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


so this is what the quran means when it says Jesus is the christ?
so Muslims are a part of the church Jesus built?

 

[Bishka]

13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


so this is what the quran means when it says Jesus is the christ?
so Muslims are a part of the church Jesus built?

Why are you so deadset against the Muslims and their beliefs? And that they are going to hell? It's quite sad to see someone as determined as you are, telling everyone they are going to hell.

 

[rocka21]

Why are you so deadset against the Muslims and their beliefs? And that they are going to hell? It's quite sad to see someone as determined as you are, telling everyone they are going to hell.

becky,

please find ONE post i have ever posted , that i told someone they are going to hell!

i didn't think so!

you love to follow me , everywhere i post and stick your nose in whatever i am debating!

I never said i was dead set against Muslims and there beliefs.
its funny how i quote a scripture from the bible and you get mad at me like " i said it".

i know you love me and all and must follow me and correct everything i post...... but please.
chill out!
</IMG>

 

[Booko]

so this is what the quran means when it says Jesus is the christ?

Which part of "Yes" did you not understand?

so Muslims are a part of the church Jesus built?

And what does this have to do with whether the Quran says Jesus is the Christ or not?

Gee, I'm sorry I kicked a big hole in that theory that the Quran denies that Jesus is the Christ, but that doesn't mean you get to try and make a quick feint and expect no one to notice you just moved sideways...

 

[Bishka]

becky,

please find ONE post i have ever posted , that i told someone they are going to hell!

You don't say it outright, but you say so many people aren't going to make it to heaven, so where else does that leave us? Hell....thought so.

you love to follow me

No I don't. I'm just simply participating in a forum with over 7000 member to it, I've been here for over a year and have 12,000 posts. You aren't my puppy dog, I don't follow you around. Don't flatter yourself.

, everywhere i post and stick your nose in whatever i am debating!

This isn't your personal and/or private forum, what's the problem?

I never said i was dead set against Muslims and there beliefs.
its funny how i quote a scripture from the bible and you get mad at me like " i said it".

You mistake irritance as if it were anger....:areyoucra

i know you love me and all and must follow me and correct everything i post...... but please.

You flatter yourself too much. I post where I please, I don't follow you around. I simply post, debate, converse, and if you happen to be there, so be it.