Nonbelievers to Hell!

[yourhopeboundheart]

You want more antagonism and that's exactly what I don't want. If our exchanges cannot be friendly and respectful, I will not engage with you. Right now you seem to be desperately trying to pick a fight with me and I don't care for it.

feel free to point out where anything unfriendly or disrespectful has been said (about you, not about your religion). or even antagonistic, for that matter. i believe i'm beginning to realize what the issue is here, and it's inferred aggression where there is none.

If you weren't an atheist or so militant about it, you wouldn't be so aggressive with me.

this, however, is an antagonistic sentence. i would have definitely let it go had i read "if you weren't an atheist AND so militant about it..." but you just made a blanket statement about an entire group of people - and a very disrespectful one at that. now, with the shoe being on the other foot is it easier for you to understand how i might just be touchy and inferring disrespect and aggression where there might not have been any. (unless of course you were aiming to offend.)

Every time I join a new discussion forum, I encounter this problem.

and it was this line that sealed it for me, whenever you catch yourself finding the same result with different experiments, look for the constant. in this case the constant is you. maybe you dont like discussion as much as you thought you did.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I know there is good in atheists. I am trying to get across that theists are human, too. There are more good in people (all people) than there are truly evil people (a lot more). Most people want to get along with each other, whether they are theist or atheist.

Agreed! :yes:

 

[Thief]

I didn't see it....maybe I overlooked it....

Entering heaven is conditional.

Failing to enter might not be God's decision.

Maybe you can't find your way there...and the fault is yours.

Or perhaps a level of discipline is required before entry.
If you have not what heaven desires...how is that God's fault?

You have your life....to live as you choose.
You thoughts and feelings are your own.
Are you not becoming the person you desire to be?

But then.....is your own self-approval....the same as God's?

That you think you are worthy of heaven?...makes it so?

 

[Eliot Wild]

Why is heaven conditional?

Is there really a sin so bad? Is there really a foul so foul?

If it is out of God's hands, then to whom do we appeal?

And if the fault is mine, why must I suffer my own delusions?

Ahhh, God is culling the chaff, cutting away the loose ends.
He's parsing the pool; He knows all that are naughty and all that are nice,
He's checking his list and counting it twice.

I'd like to be worthy of heaven . . . does anyone know where they're fixing the curve?

 

[Thief]

Why is heaven conditional?

Is there really a sin so bad? Is there really a foul so foul?

If it is out of God's hands, then to whom do we appeal?

And if the fault is mine, why must I suffer my own delusions?

Ahhh, God is culling the chaff, cutting away the loose ends.
He's parsing the pool; He knows all that are naughty and all that are nice,
He's checking his list and counting it twice.

I'd like to be worthy of heaven . . . does anyone know where they're fixing the curve?

Peace first.

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Peace first.

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

Good answer. Damn good answer. That's what I'd have gone with myself. Peace first and last.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nice dodge.
To MM's question of what happens to the current three quarters of the global popualtion who are not Christians, I will add what happened to the billions of human beings who lived before your Christ figure was introduced as well.
This is a vital question pertaining to the Christian belief that one must be saved by Christ or face eternal damnation.

According to Matthew [25v32] there will be a future cut-off time.
Only those who are placed at Jesus right hand of favor, so to speak, at that time of separation, will be counted as being part of the humble, mild, meek sheep-like ones who can be saved preserved alive at that time and have everlasting life in view right here on earth as originally offered to Adam.

As far as those who died before Christ, Romans [6v7] states that the one who has died is freed from sin. This does not mean they are innocent but like a governor can pardon a person so the crime [sin] charges no longer stick.

Since death is the wages sin pays [Rom 6v23] then one's 'death' stamps the price tag of sin as 'Paid in Full' thus those dead before Christ will be resurrected during Jesus 1000-year reign over earth. Acts 24v14.
Resurrected Not to heaven but right here on earth.
That is why Acts [2v34] can say even king David did not ascend to heaven.
The prophet Daniel looked forward to an earthly resurrection. [12vs2,13]

So those that died before Christ are Not offered any heavenly hope, but can be part of the promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed. Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18; Rev 22v2.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why is heaven conditional?
Is there really a sin so bad? Is there really a foul so foul?
If it is out of God's hands, then to whom do we appeal?
And if the fault is mine, why must I suffer my own delusions?
Ahhh, God is culling the chaff, cutting away the loose ends.
He's parsing the pool; He knows all that are naughty and all that are nice,
He's checking his list and counting it twice.
I'd like to be worthy of heaven . . . does anyone know where they're fixing the curve?

I guess one could say the 'curve' so to speak, started with Christ.
Starting with Pentecost the way to heavenly life was opened up.
Those that will rule with Jesus [Rev 5vs9,10; 20v6] are there because
'God has chosen them' to rule with Jesus for 1000 years.

If you like living on earth and don't want to leave earth then that would seem to indicate your calling is to be part of Jesus promise that the humble, meek, mild people will inherit the earth or the earthly realm of God's kingdom.
Compare Psalm 37vs11,29,38 with Matthew 5v5.

As far as sin: basically sin is either intentional, on purpose, willful, deliberate, premeditated or not. Hebrews 10v26.
In other words, we should not practice sin willfully.
The unforgivable sin is mentioned at Matthew 12v32 and Hebrews 6vs4-6.

 

[ChristineES]

Being in a union with God is as easy as asking (and repenting); but then I guess it would appear conditional if someone didn't believe in God.

 

[LuisDantas]

Being in a union with God is as easy as asking (and repenting); but then I guess it would appear conditional if someone didn't believe in God.

It does. Then again, what is belief in God? Surely more (or even less) than just saying that one believes in God, particularly if one does so simply to avoid eternal torment.

 

[Midnight Pete]

It does. Then again, what is belief in God? Surely more (or even less) than just saying that one believes in God, particularly if one does so simply to avoid eternal torment.

Avoiding eternal torment (IMHO) requires more than lip-service to God when the gates of hell are looming. God, who knows your heart, who has counted counted all the hairs on your head, asks of you 100% sincerity and will settle for nothing less if you are to be a member of His household. He loves you and wants you to love Him. He loves with a love that exceeds our understanding.

The red pill or the blue pill?

 

[LuisDantas]

Or no pill? I ask because I can sincerely say that by that standard atheism is not only legitimate, but probably needed.

 

[DarkSun]

She says the only things you must do to get to Heaven is accept you are a sinner, and accept Jesus. She is very tolerant however, it seems as if her god is not.

So a baby raper can go to heaven if he accepts that he is a sinner and accepts Jesus?

 

[dancingsky]

So a baby raper can go to heaven if he accepts that he is a sinner and accepts Jesus?

What a disgusting thought!

 

[Midnight Pete]

Or no pill? I ask because I can sincerely say that by that standard atheism is not only legitimate, but probably needed.

If atheism exists to counteract false faith and bad religion, it is indeed needed.

 

[Midnight Pete]

What a disgusting thought!

A radical thought, but not a disgusting thought. If a baby raper can genuinely repent his sins and asks God for forgiveness, he will be granted that absolution. That's how it works.

 

[LuisDantas]

I must agree, at least in part. There is little point in simply assuming that someone is beyond repenting and must be despised no matter what.

 

[dancingsky]

A radical thought, but not a disgusting thought. If a baby raper can genuinely repent his sins and asks God for forgiveness, he will be granted that absolution. That's how it works.

But if the converse is that a genuinely good person, who is an atheist, goes to hell because of unbelief it is wrong on all counts. Fortunately Christians who believe in that sad doctrine are in the minority.

 

[Thief]

I must agree, at least in part. There is little point in simply assuming that someone is beyond repenting and must be despised no matter what.

On the other hand.....
walking about in heaven...with your reputation tattooed on your face....
(I refer to Cain)
How then to walk in peace?

Not believing is one thing....and then claiming repentance while not having performed?

Having faith and entry into heaven is held as a long shot....by believers.
Entry into heaven without faith would be a very very....long shot.

So if you end up in a place along side people who do as you have done...
how then would you be surprised?
And if God is not there...choosing others for His good company...
how is that unexpected?

 

[Midnight Pete]

But if the converse is that a genuinely good person, who is an atheist, goes to hell because of unbelief it is wrong on all counts. Fortunately Christians who believe in that sad doctrine are in the minority.

Are they?