Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Intrinsically? By virtue of their non-belief and that alone?
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Nonbelievers to Hell!
- Thread starter Klaufi_Wodensson
- Start date
Intrinsically? By virtue of their non-belief and that alone?
Of course not. But it happens way too often, and to such a dramatic degree, that it is very noteworthy.
Midnight Pete, in two threads now I've asked you serious questions about why God would damn unbelievers who are just following the faith of their land and in neither of them have you responded -- I know the threads pass by pretty quick; I'm not asserting that you dodged them purposely, but I'm just letting you know that I really do want to know what you think about the subject?
I really want to know what someone like you -- who (as far as I can tell) believes in people getting into heaven by faith (rather than evidence) -- thinks about all the billions of people going to Hell because they just happened to be born in an area where they're taught the "wrong" blind faith?
How do you explain that? Do you consider a god who punishes people for that a "good" and "just" god?
I really want to know what someone like you -- who (as far as I can tell) believes in people getting into heaven by faith (rather than evidence) -- thinks about all the billions of people going to Hell because they just happened to be born in an area where they're taught the "wrong" blind faith?
How do you explain that? Do you consider a god who punishes people for that a "good" and "just" god?
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
I have indeed "dodged" your questions purposefully, Meow Mix, because it's obvious that you are not genuinely seeking. I don't want to carry on like this because I'm not interested in Atheist vs. Theist verbal combat or endless rebuttal. It serves no purpose other than to make people upset and angry at their keyboards.
Isn't that because you don't have anymore answers than the rest of us? All you have is your belief system, which undoubtedly is very real to you, but has no basis in fact.
doesn't sound like provocation for:
and why is it this particular line of questioning that you are avoiding while you carry on in debating so many other topics that could be considered "atheist vs. theist verbal combat".
and if you avoid a subject, how do you know that there will be "endless rebuttal"?
i think the questions posed to you on the subject are relevant to the thread and relevant to substantiating your argument as a whole. and i would also like to hear your answers, since you seem to be coming from a background of biblical literacy.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
You want more antagonism and that's exactly what I don't want. If our exchanges cannot be friendly and respectful, I will not engage with you. Right now you seem to be desperately trying to pick a fight with me and I don't care for it.
You know, Midnight Pete, people are allowed to have their own opinions and express them.
It usually beats refusing to do so. Courage is a moral value.
It usually beats refusing to do so. Courage is a moral value.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
I would never suggest that you suppress your opinions, Luis. But you are not courageous for trying to goad me into an argument. It's more obnoxious than courageous.
Love
Joy
Peace
Long-Suffering
Kindness
Goodness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Temperance
These 9 Contrary Virtues are the Fruits of the Holy Spirit. Whoever demonstrates them (all of them) is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. As a Christian, these are my moral values.
Just to let you know where I'm coming from.
What can I say? I disagree. Arguments are a good tool for better, more solid understanding and even legitimate learning.
Why is Long-Suffering a virtue?
Regardless, if you feel so strongly about avoiding debates you should probably take a look at the Christian DIRs. This area here is General Debates, so you should expect debates. The DIRs are a different thing entirely.
Sadly those virtues are lacking in many more extreme Christians, and to be frank having read some of your posts they wouldn't have immediately sprung to mind where you are concerned.
When have I ever been vitriolic and rude, to you or anyone else on this forum?
If you do a little digging and checking my other posts (many of which I've started under various topics) you'll find that I'm a friendly and respectful gal. I had no intention of getting in a shouting match with you, just to understand your position on a subject.
If you'd rather not talk about that subject then I will respect that, but I'm just curious why you assumed I'm some kind of predator just waiting to take a bite out of you? Is it because I'm an atheist?
Regardless, I guess I'll see you around the boards.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
If you weren't an atheist or so militant about it, you wouldn't be so aggressive with me. Me, I'm not trying to break anyone's balls. I don't want to aggress or make enemies.
Every time I join a new discussion forum, I encounter this problem.
Actually, although those virtues may be lacking in some Christians, it is abundant in others. If you are not moved to see any good in anyone, then you won't see it. If you only look for the bad/evil, that is what you will see.
If you weren't an atheist or so militant about it, you wouldn't be so aggressive with me. Me, I'm not trying to break anyone's balls. I don't want to aggress or make enemies.
Every time I join a new discussion forum, I encounter this problem.
The purpose of discussion is to take each others' ideas and digest them for an understanding of where one another is coming from. In order to do that, questions have to be asked when something doesn't make sense.
I'm sorry if that comes off as "aggressive." I know I have been truly aggressive in other threads once or twice if I've gotten frustrated over a lack of an answer, but I'm never actually angry or offput. I'm always still pals with whoever I'm talking to.
I don't see this as a venue to throw punches and then say "Yeah, that's right!" This is a venue for understanding and testing multitudes of different ideas and conceptions.
If someone poses a question and you begin to answer that question but don't adequately explain it and then refuse to talk about it, that just seems strange to me. I will of course respect your wish not to discuss some of these subjects, but I don't understand why you pitch in your two cents if you're not going to talk about them once they're on the table?
I may be an atheist but I don't bite. You describe me as aggressive and militant, but I doubt very many others on the boards -- of literally many faiths as well as atheists -- would tell you that I'm unfriendly, harsh, "militant," or "aggressive." I'm friendly, I joke around, but I do digest claims and beliefs to try to understand them: and that involves asking tough questions. If you perceive asking questions in order to understand something as rude, then I don't know what to say.
I guess if we end up in a thread about something prosaic together we can become fast friends, but it seems if I'm asking questions about aspects of a religion you will likely continue to perceive me thusly. I won't bother you anymore I suppose, but don't hesitate to say hi and chat it up with me if it's a subject you're comfortable talking about!
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I should have said! :highfive:
Those virtues are also present in many non-Christians, too. The only one an atheist would likely lack is faithfulness; but only in some contexts of "faith." We of course have faith in our friends and family, in the future of mankind, etc.
I know there is good in atheists. I am trying to get across that theists are human, too. There are more good in people (all people) than there are truly evil people (a lot more). Most people want to get along with each other, whether they are theist or atheist.
I most definitely agree. I know far more good people of all faiths (and lacks thereof) than I do truly despicable people. Even those I'd call despicable have some redeeming qualities, and there's hope for them to get their lives and temperaments together...
AxisMundi
E Pluribus Unum!!!
Nice dodge.
To MM's question of what happens to the current three quarters of the global popualtion who are not Christians, I will add what happened to the billions of human beings who lived before your Christ figure was introduced as well.
This is a vital question pertaining to the Christian belief that one must be saved by Christ or face eternal damnation.