"My Son is Gay"

[Mike182]

Gene-sequences? Genetic? Come on. I can point out as many scientific facts as you disproving that theory. What difference would it make anyway? If you're proud to be gay wouldn't you have wanted the choice to become gay than have gayness thrust upon you? Whatever though.

thanks for the gay psychology 101, but if i had had the conscious choice on if i wanted to be gay or not, i would never have chosen to be gay, simply because of the amount of discrimination and hatred from both within my family and from the outside. no one chooses to be hated.

if it is proven that it was a choice however, why would that make any difference to this debate?

anyway, back to the more interesting point, do you still support incest, and believe it to be part of God's plan? maybe you could address this issue that comes with a literal understanding of Genesis, you seem to have avoided it so far

 

[Autodidact]

thanks for the gay psychology 101, but if i had had the conscious choice on if i wanted to be gay or not, i would never have chosen to be gay, simply because of the amount of discrimination and hatred from both within my family and from the outside. no one chooses to be hated.

if it is proven that it was a choice however, why would that make any difference to this debate?

I would, but that seems to be a more common attitude among women. The benefits are well worth the piddly little discrimination I occasionally encounter.

 

[Mike182]

I would, but that seems to be a more common attitude among women. The benefits are well worth the piddly little discrimination I occasionally encounter.

well, given that i'm still relatively young and dependant upon family support, being an outcast from the family (which i am) because i'm gay is a very hard thing to deal with - i would choose to be straight over gay.

but yeah, everyone will have a different answer to this question, and different reasons for that answer.

 

[rasor]

I believe that Homosexuality results mainly from upbringing, with possibly some genetics.

If thats the case how come there are homosexual animals such as sheep and horses.Is it due to there upbring ? I think not.

 

[mudge991]

If thats the case how come there are homosexual animals such as sheep and horses.Is it due to there upbring ? I think not.

I wish I knew the answer myself. Too bad there isnt any proof at this point in time. So far it's all speculation, with no evidence to point either way. What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values.

As far as incest, better read again how could Noah's little band re-populate the earth without it? :shout

 

[Mike182]

I wish I knew the answer myself. Too bad there isnt any proof at this point in time. So far it's all speculation, with no evidence to point either way. What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values.

but that doesn't go anywhere towards explaining me though, because the family values i was raised with were entirely heterosexually based, with a negative opinion of homosexuals. i can't see anywhere in that mess of homophobia where i would have learnt that being gay is a positive thing to be, or that i should be gay.

 

[Smoke]

but that doesn't go anywhere towards explaining me though, because the family values i was raised with were entirely heterosexually based, with a negative opinion of homosexuals. i can't see anywhere in that mess of homophobia where i would have learnt that being gay is a positive thing to be, or that i should be gay.

I wish all the people who say it's a choice had the opportunity to spend a week as me at the age of fifteen. I'm happy to be gay now; I wouldn't trade it for anything. But it took a long time to get there.

 

[mudge991]

I wish all the people who say it's a choice had the opportunity to spend a week as me at the age of fifteen. I'm happy to be gay now; I wouldn't trade it for anything. But it took a long time to get there.

I was not implying that you had it easy, I just was stating the facts as I know them. Weither or not your upbringing was a factor, the only thing we know for sure is that it plays a part. For all I know, it may be one of those repressed memories things that celebrites find so popular. Who knows? I dont think it matters to most educated people.
I would hope most people are as interested in your sexual orientation as are your relegion. Nobody should care about either, or shout about it to everyone they can.

 

[Smoke]

I was not implying that you had it easy, I just was stating the facts as I know them.

I'm not talking about whether I had it easy or whether I had a hard time. I'm talking about choice. I tried my damndest to choose to be heterosexual, and it just didn't happen.

Weither or not your upbringing was a factor, the only thing we know for sure is that it plays a part.

How do you know that for sure?

 

[Mike182]

I was not implying that you had it easy, I just was stating the facts as I know them. Weither or not your upbringing was a factor, the only thing we know for sure is that it plays a part. For all I know, it may be one of those repressed memories things that celebrites find so popular. Who knows? I dont think it matters to most educated people.
I would hope most people are as interested in your sexual orientation as are your relegion. Nobody should care about either, or shout about it to everyone they can.

no, but reducing it to a simple formula of family upbringing=homosexuality really annoys a lot of gay people i know, because of bad family experiences from being gay. it's just one of those topics

 

[Smoke]

no, but reducing it to a simple formula of family upbringing=homosexuality really annoys a lot of gay people i know, because of bad family experiences from being gay. it's just one of those topics

It doesn't ring true, not to any gay person I've ever discussed it with. It doesn't make sense.

It's also a touchy subject to me because my mother cried for a year thinking it was her fault, and my father wanted to ship me off to be "cured" by Christian "therapists."

 

[sandandfoam]

It doesn't ring true, not to any gay person I've ever discussed it with. It doesn't make sense.

It's also a touchy subject to me because my mother cried for a year thinking it was her fault, and my father wanted to ship me off to be "cured" by Christian "therapists."

Every situation is different. My brother hasn't spoken to us since he 'came out' nearly ten years ago. Apparently he thought we wouldn't accept him. Thing is I would have been surprised if he was straight.
I think there's a lot of homophobic nonsense floating around in society. I think one result of this is that sometimes people presume their families will be upset. How do you untangle upset about an offsprings sexuality from their homosexuality ?
For example if/when my daughters bring me home the most virile man or woman they can find I'm not going to be best pleased (although naturally I will try to conceal my displeasure), if they take me home a woman would they interpret my displeasure as being with their homosexuality, when in truth I would be just as (and perhaps more because I know for certain what randy young fellas are like) unhappy if they brought me home a man ?
As I say I'm sure every situation is different but parents are easily shocked by their childrens sexuality whatever variety it is. When I moved in with my now wife at 18 my mother took to the bed and we didn't speak for nearly 2 years as she had issues about us 'living in sin'.
Sexuality and parents are like oil and water whatever the orientation of the offspring.

 

[Mike182]

Every situation is different. My brother hasn't spoken to us since he 'came out' nearly ten years ago. Apparently he thought we wouldn't accept him. Thing is I would have been surprised if he was straight.
I think there's a lot of homophobic nonsense floating around in society. I think one result of this is that sometimes people presume their families will be upset. How do you untangle upset about an offsprings sexuality from their homosexuality ?
For example if/when my daughters bring me home the most virile man or woman they can find I'm not going to be best pleased (although naturally I will try to conceal my displeasure), if they take me home a woman would they interpret my displeasure as being with their homosexuality, when in truth I would be just as (and perhaps more because I know for certain what randy young fellas are like) unhappy if they brought me home a man ?
As I say I'm sure every situation is different but parents are easily shocked by their childrens sexuality whatever variety it is. When I moved in with my now wife at 18 my mother took to the bed and we didn't speak for nearly 2 years as she had issues about us 'living in sin'.
Sexuality and parents are like oil and water whatever the orientation of the offspring.

i'm struggling to formulate what i want to say, so i'm sorry if this post doesn't seem to be all that clear. obviously there are gays who grow up in affirming households and don't suffer a harsh family reaction to their sexuality, but for most gays this is not the case.

the issue you raise is the parent having problems with the character flaws of the man or woman their child brings home, which is a separate issue to the issue of rejecting the child's sexuality. bringing home a partner with undesirable character flaws does certainly create tension and even hostilities between the parent and the child, but for a homosexual it is two-fold because of the extra rejection of the child's sexuality, and being confronted with what you reject.

 

[mudge991]

no, but reducing it to a simple formula of family upbringing=homosexuality really annoys a lot of gay people i know, because of bad family experiences from being gay. it's just one of those topics

I am sorry if I offended you. I suppose I should have emphasized that the ONLY thing we have quantitative evidence of, is that upbringing has shown to be a factor in peoples development. I use it in the way that you are more likely to be Islamic than mormon growing up in saudi arabia.

 

[Autodidact]

I wish I knew the answer myself. Too bad there isnt any proof at this point in time. So far it's all speculation, with no evidence to point either way. What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values.

Certainly beliefs are, but desires are not. You left out the most important element of what shapes people's behavior: genetics.
There isn't proof, there is never proof of anything. But there is evidence, and it's starting to indicate an inborn disposition to sexual preference.

As far as incest, better read again how could Noah's little band re-populate the earth without it? :shout

So I take that as a yes, then, God is pro-incest?

 

[mudge991]

Certainly beliefs are, but desires are not. You left out the most important element of what shapes people's behavior: genetics.
There isn't proof, there is never proof of anything. But there is evidence, and it's starting to indicate an inborn disposition to sexual preference.

Keep in mind I'm only interested in facts when people are making a claim......
There isn't any evidence yet, beginning or halfway at this point. There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is simply "genetic." And none of the research claims there is.Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in sound bites to the public.

"In July of 1993, the prestigious research journal Science published a study by Dean Hamer which claims that there might be a gene for homosexuality. Research seemed to be on the verge of proving that homosexuality is innate, genetic and therefore unchangeablea normal variant of human nature.
Soon afterward, National Public Radio trumpeted those findings. Newsweek ran the cover story, "Gay Gene?" The Wall Street Journal announced,"Research Points Toward a Gay Gene...Normal Variation."

Of course, certain necessary qualifiers were added within those news stories. But only an expert knew what those qualifiers meant. The vast majority of readers were urged to believe that homosexuals had been proven to be "born that way."

 

[Smoke]

Keep in mind I'm only interested in facts when people are making a claim......
There isn't any evidence yet, beginning or halfway at this point.

So am I, which is why I asked how you know for sure that upbringing plays a part. I still haven't received an answer.

Is there any evidence that heterosexuality is genetic?

 

[rheff78]

Certainly beliefs are, but desires are not. You left out the most important element of what shapes people's behavior: genetics.
There isn't proof, there is never proof of anything. But there is evidence, and it's starting to indicate an inborn disposition to sexual preference.

So I take that as a yes, then, God is pro-incest?

I'm guessing that goes towards me. You are asking me to answer a question scholar's haven't been able to answer. Sorry, although I'm touched that you think I have that keen of a mind, my answer is I don't know how it was re-populated. But no, God isn't for incest.

 

[Autodidact]

Well, apparently God set up a situation where it was required, though? I mean, how did He expect Adam and Eve to go forth and multiply without it? I can see why you're stumped.

 

[rheff78]

The difference is, christians don't HAVE to know all the answers. That's where faith comes in. We don't have to know the how. All we need to know is the why.