s2a
Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
Heh. Seconded.Darkdale said:If there ain't no coffee in heaven, I want out!
"Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."
- Mark Twain
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Heh. Seconded.Darkdale said:If there ain't no coffee in heaven, I want out!
i have heard several other people say that, but i have yet to see the movie.God is love said:I like the movie "What dreams may come" with Robin Williams. This is the closest to what I think Heaven might be in the next life.
as my beliefs are based on what the bible says , then i think the answer is no.Sunstone said:May, do you have any non scriptural basis for supposing there is only one path to God?
That's nice, but it kind of sounds to me as if you have appointed yourself as the judge, jury and executioner of all Christians. I don't know what denomination you visited today, but I can't imagine all Christian services are like that. I know mine isn't.wizenheimer69 said:Path to paradise, there has to be one. Dealing with religious zealots all day long makes me wonder if this is my punishment before paradise. I just sat through a sermon at a supposedly "religiously tolerant" church today at the request of my parents. It's safe to say that Christians have truly convinced themselves that they are the judge, jury and executioner.
Well I certainly believe that so it could have been me. But otoh, I am sure that any number of other people could have posted the same thing.Katzpur said:I'd just like to add one thought to those that my fellow Mormons have already mentioned. A number of a months ago, someone mentioned something in a post that struck me as particularly insightful. I've been thinking all along that it was you. I just don't know whether or not I can explain it accurately enough so that you would be able to recognize it as yours, if I was.
Anyway, it had something to do with the difference in cultures, backgrounds and environments each of us has and how these are so influential in how we see the world around us and especially how we view God and things of a spritual nature. We also each have a unique set of inherent weaknesses and character flaws which may prevent us from seeing things other people pick up on right away.
I think this was possibly addressed in the "Is hell eternal?" thread, but this begs the question as to why there are three kingdoms. If everyone has an equal chance of accepting the truth after death, free from the impediments of our cultural and personal baggage, then why wouldn't everyone end up in the same place? What would account for our different responses in the face of the obvious truth if it isn't all these conditions that make us different?Katzpur said:We don't believe, as most Christians do, that this life is our one and only chance to acknowledge the atonement of Christ or to accept His gospel. We believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is being taught today in the Spirit World and that it will continue to be taught there until everyone has had the same opportunity to accept it. Now, when I say "the same opportunity," I mean that more literally than you may realize, because in the Spirit World, all of the cultural, environmental and genetic barriers we experience here on earth will be removed. The name of Christ's Church will be insignificant at that point. Only the doctrines will exist and the truth of these doctrines will be readily apparent to everyone who is pure in heart and wants to know the truth. What may have appeared to be ludicrous, heretical or anything else to people here and now will make sense. The pieces of the puzzle will all fit very well together. People will be able to see the whole elephant at last. If they still want to call that elephant a gazelle, that's their problem, but most will probably recognize it for what it is.
I can accept that in that it makes sense. I don't agree of course!Katzpur said:None of these remarks addresses your questions, though. Since we believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are physically distinct from one another, and since we no not accept the belief that they are "co-equal," it stands to reason that the Father would preside over the highest degree of glory, the Son would preside over the next highest degree of glory, and the Holy Ghost would preside over the lowest degree of glory -- which is still a "degree of glory." We hold the Holy Ghost in high esteem. But we consider God the Father to be "the Highest," or "the Supreme." Even the Son worships Him as His God.
I see the existence of three separate kingdoms as fulfilling Jesus' words that He would reward every man "according to his works." Some people are obviously less valiant in their acceptance of the gospel of Jesus Christ than others are. If we are to be rewarded according to our works, it stands to reason that those whose works most fully glorified God would receive the greater reward. According to LDS doctrine, a greater reward would be nothing more than a greater degree of heavenly glory, the gift of having a closer relationship with God, and greater opportunities to progress in the eternities to come.lilithu said:I think this was possibly addressed in the "Is hell eternal?" thread, but this begs the question as to why there are three kingdoms. If everyone has an equal chance of accepting the truth after death, free from the impediments of our cultural and personal baggage, then why wouldn't everyone end up in the same place? What would account for our different responses in the face of the obvious truth if it isn't all these conditions that make us different?
Well, since all I was trying to do was have it make sense, I'll take that as meaning my post was a huge success!I can accept that in that it makes sense. I don't agree of course!
Congratulations. If you don't mind my asking, where exactly in LDS doctrine does it talk about these closer relationships with God and progression through the heavens throughout eternity?Well, since all I was trying to do was have it make sense, I'll take that as meaning my post was a huge success!
Why would I mind your asking? Most of our official doctrine on this topic comes from the Doctrine and Covenants, Sections 76 and 88. And just as a clarification, your wording ("progression through the heavens throughout eternity") is somewhat misleading. We believe that for those whom God exalts, there will be no end to their potential to progress forever. For those who are received into Heaven but who do not attain the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom, progress will at some point stop.Fatmop said:If you don't mind my asking, where exactly in LDS doctrine does it talk about these closer relationships with God and progression through the heavens throughout eternity?
Jesus did say he was the only way, no one can come to the Father but by him. Now you say based on a person's works, but the Bible says it is not of works lest any man should boast, that our works are as filthy rags, that God will NOT be a debtor to any man: Romans 4:3-5 For what sayeth the scripture? Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh NOT, but BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is couted for righteousness.john313 said:I thought it might be interesting to see how many people think their religion is the only path to paradise/heaven. i have heard many followers of different abrahamic religions say such things.
i personally believe there are many paths to paradise based mostly on a person's works.
Tell that to a deaf, or blind, or quadrplegic, or anyone else who is suffering from disease, sickness, oppression, crippled, etc. etc. in this world. This world is NOT paradise, look at all the crime, murder, hatred, death, suffering, etc. This is a fallen creation groaning under the weight of sin. I would hate to get to heaven, and Peter, say, Joeboonda, lock your doors, make sure you daughter has an escort, grab your bible, we got sinners up here, hitler is up here, people are dying up here, its as bad as earth. No, a thousand times no! In Heaven there will be no sorrow, no sickness, no death, no more tears, no murderers, liars, or other horrible people, only washed in the blood saints, haleluia!FeathersinHair said:Hmm... I think I agree with two answers, that this is a paradise, as well as all paths leading to paradise.
I do not believe in original sin.joeboonda said:Tell that to a deaf, or blind, or quadrplegic, or anyone else who is suffering from disease, sickness, oppression, crippled, etc. etc. in this world. This world is NOT paradise, look at all the crime, murder, hatred, death, suffering, etc. This is a fallen creation groaning under the weight of sin. I would hate to get to heaven, and Peter, say, Joeboonda, lock your doors, make sure you daughter has an escort, grab your bible, we got sinners up here, hitler is up here, people are dying up here, its as bad as earth. No, a thousand times no! In Heaven there will be no sorrow, no sickness, no death, no more tears, no murderers, liars, or other horrible people, only washed in the blood saints, haleluia!
He said He as the Manifestation of God was the way , the truth and the life. Of course, I believe that He could say that quite clearly and truthfully and it has no effect on the fact that in His day, Moses was the way, the truth and the life; Muhammed was the way, the truth and the life, Buddha was the way, the truth and the life, etc., etc..joeboonda said:Jesus did say he was the only way, no one can come to the Father but by him. Now you say based on a person's works, but the Bible says it is not of works lest any man should boast, that our works are as filthy rags, that God will NOT be a debtor to any man: Romans 4:3-5 For what sayeth the scripture? Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh NOT, but BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is couted for righteousness.
Our 'righteousness' is as filthy rags, the more you try to clean yourself, the dirtier you will become. God provided one way, out of his great love for us, and showed us plainly in his word, believe it, or not. PEACE!
The Bible is clear in its teaching that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven givenamong men; whereby we must be saved.Popeyesays said:He said He as the Manifestation of God was the way , the truth and the life. Of course, I believe that He could say that quite clearly and truthfully and it has no effect on the fact that in His day, Moses was the way, the truth and the life; Muhammed was the way, the truth and the life, Buddha was the way, the truth and the life, etc., etc..
Religion is a progression of man's understanding of God's will. Religion is a progression of man's ability to create a civilization based on the will of God.
Jes was the first and the last, but so was Muhammed, Moses, Zoroaster, the Bab and Baha`u'llah.
God's mercy is for all. To say that Jesus forswore that reality is a slur against His Name.
Regards,
Scott
I assure you I have no desire to argue, but I do not agree.joeboonda said:The Bible is clear in its teaching that Jesus is the only way to heaven. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other; for there is none other name under heaven givenamong men; whereby we must be saved.
Jesus died and rose again to pay for my sins so I may be in God's holy presence, Muhammed, Moses, Zoroaster, Budha, Hari-Krishna, nor the Bab and Baha' u'llah did such a wonderful thing for me, nor with the power and authority and miracles following. Jesus is the only way, or he is a liar, and that is out of his character. I say this not to argue, or be narrow-minded, but because it is the truth, and must be proclaimed. PEACE!
Hmmm.. so what does heavenly progress entail?Why would I mind your asking?Most of our official doctrine on this topic comes from the Doctrine and Covenants, Sections 76 and 88. And just as a clarification, your wording ("progression through the heavens throughout eternity") is somewhat misleading. We believe that for those whom God exalts, there will be no end to their potential to progress forever. For those who are received into Heaven but who do not attain the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom, progress will at some point stop.
It entails becoming god-like. As C.S. Lewis put it:Fatmop said:Hmmm.. so what does heavenly progress entail?