My experience and gods existence

[lukethethird]

The one true God is no doubt pissed.

All I know is that the one true God has the same morals as me.

 

[InChrist]

I mentioned an experience I had 11 years ago when I almost got hit by two cars and something (or one's arm) went across my chest and pushed me back. Another similar incident wasn't that dramatic (no spirits iow) but two cars almost hit me and one so close I had to get a drink after crossing the street.

I called my Christian former friend and told her the 1st incident. My grandmother had just passed away then and first thing I said was thank you grandma but my friend thought it was god.

Now I don't believe deities exist but she got me thinking that if spiritual awakenings from atheist to theist were true my friend and I wouldn't have drawn two completely different conclusions from the same event.

Her prior knowledge of God lead her to that conclusion. My absence thereof by default did not.

So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?

(I've heard it used as proof of god's existence)

And if spiritual awakenings by default lead to God, why do people who share similar events come to completely different opposing conclusions?


Just a thought not a sermon

I think the reality is that each person is at a different place in their personal experiences and understanding, so everyone comes to different conclusions. My understanding is that God the Creator desires all to be saved from sin, come to Him and have eternal life. From my experience, I know I was spiritually blind and living in darkness until I actually realized I needed a Savior and trusted Jesus Christ. Before that time though, I did experience times where I had close calls with harm, but some power intervened and I was spared.

A non-Christian friend shared an amazing experience with me years ago. She was at a spiritual, new age retreat. One night she was asleep alone in her tent out in the forest. She said “someone” shook her arm, woke her up and said, Get Out! She quickly got out of her tent just before a large tree fell on it. She didn’t see anyone around... but her life was saved.
From my perspective, God sent an angel to save her life and give her further time and opportunity to trust Jesus as her Savior because as the Bible says that He’s...
...not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

I know I was spared and given more opportunities to come to understand and realize I needed the Savior.

 

[Truthseeker]

So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?

(I've heard it used as proof of god's existence)

And if spiritual awakenings by default lead to God, why do people who share similar events come to completely different opposing conclusions?

I knew a person who came to Planet Baha'i. Nothing special had happened, but he woke up one day and went from atheist to a believer in God. Her felt a connection to God he claimed. He had what I would consider strange theology about God. His understanding evolved over time, and after a while heard nothing from him again. Have no idea how he ended up. He was a speed reader and read the whole Old Testament and New Testament in a short amount of time, and at first concluded that the Old Testament God was not the same God as the New Testament. Then he changed his mind. I don't know where he evolved from there.

My conclusion is that anyone can be spiritually awakened. He didn't try to convert us to his theology. The fact that he didn't try to convert us means to me that he did have a genuine spiritual awakening.

 

[firedragon]

I mentioned an experience I had 11 years ago when I almost got hit by two cars and something (or one's arm) went across my chest and pushed me back. Another similar incident wasn't that dramatic (no spirits iow) but two cars almost hit me and one so close I had to get a drink after crossing the street.

I called my Christian former friend and told her the 1st incident. My grandmother had just passed away then and first thing I said was thank you grandma but my friend thought it was god.

Now I don't believe deities exist but she got me thinking that if spiritual awakenings from atheist to theist were true my friend and I wouldn't have drawn two completely different conclusions from the same event.

Her prior knowledge of God lead her to that conclusion. My absence thereof by default did not.

So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?

(I've heard it used as proof of god's existence)

And if spiritual awakenings by default lead to God, why do people who share similar events come to completely different opposing conclusions?


Just a thought not a sermon

Hmm. There is an old saying "tie the camel and pray that it will be safe".

The gist is, "tie the camel first". I know this is not exactly relevant to your story above but that's a religious teaching that tells you to do what you think is your faith matters, but still, tie your camel or expect the natural things.

So with that thought, I would say that I will agree with both the atheist and the theist. In fact, this is the Islamic perspective. If you think its not relevant since your OP was about a Christian friend of yours you can dismiss this post.

If I may add, in Islamic tradition, there are several schools of thought in theological belief and several other schools in jurisprudence. This kind of thing about using an event like this as proof of God did not exist. Of course some preachers may speak about things like this, and I have even read books on it. But they are not part of these schools of thought. Just "preaching".

And to respond to your last sentiment about spiritual awakening etc, in every single spiritual matter or philosophical propositions, or even any kind of experience, people have different takes. It is not a problem with only theists, but atheists too. This is a hard problem and there is no conclusive naturalistic idea or theory for it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I've had several incidents where my life was in danger (often sustaining injuries) and sometimes where I seemingly miraculously escaped death. In none of them did I experience anything that I could have put down to something spiritual and they have all balanced up mostly as to plusses and losses. My quick reactions have mostly saved me on these occasions.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If it were god then wouldn't that experience surpass all social and experiential biases?

Possibly, if God specifically did something to make it obvious that it were God. But otherwise, how could one tell?

 

[Brian2]

I mentioned an experience I had 11 years ago when I almost got hit by two cars and something (or one's arm) went across my chest and pushed me back. Another similar incident wasn't that dramatic (no spirits iow) but two cars almost hit me and one so close I had to get a drink after crossing the street.

I called my Christian former friend and told her the 1st incident. My grandmother had just passed away then and first thing I said was thank you grandma but my friend thought it was god.

Now I don't believe deities exist but she got me thinking that if spiritual awakenings from atheist to theist were true my friend and I wouldn't have drawn two completely different conclusions from the same event.

Her prior knowledge of God lead her to that conclusion. My absence thereof by default did not.

So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?

(I've heard it used as proof of god's existence)

And if spiritual awakenings by default lead to God, why do people who share similar events come to completely different opposing conclusions?


Just a thought not a sermon

Helen Keller was blind and deaf from the age of 2 in 1882 and when eventually she was able to communicate and was told about God, she said that she already knew of God. She had experienced God without being told.
I wonder if our thinking can lead us away from that innate knowledge.
Atheists say that the default state is atheism but Helen shows otherwise.

 

[KWED]

I mentioned an experience I had 11 years ago when I almost got hit by two cars and something (or one's arm) went across my chest and pushed me back. Another similar incident wasn't that dramatic (no spirits iow) but two cars almost hit me and one so close I had to get a drink after crossing the street.

I called my Christian former friend and told her the 1st incident. My grandmother had just passed away then and first thing I said was thank you grandma but my friend thought it was god.

Now I don't believe deities exist but she got me thinking that if spiritual awakenings from atheist to theist were true my friend and I wouldn't have drawn two completely different conclusions from the same event.

Her prior knowledge of God lead her to that conclusion. My absence thereof by default did not.

So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?

(I've heard it used as proof of god's existence)

And if spiritual awakenings by default lead to God, why do people who share similar events come to completely different opposing conclusions?


Just a thought not a sermon

Studies have suggested that we have an innate tendency to attribute unexplainable events to the supernatural (known as "hypersensitive agency-detecting device"). It had evolutionary advantage. Therefore everyone has this "preexisting knowledge of god". (Even myself, the hardened atheist rationalist scientist, gets a little tingle when the bedroom door opens in the dead of night - even though I know it is only the wind.)
However, in the modern age there is far less unexplained, and far less risk, so it lies dormant until activated by something (childhood indoctrination, trauma, psychotic event, etc).

As this is merely an inherited tendency rather than a specific behaviour, the person will pick up whatever is culturally relevant to them.

 

[KWED]

The fact is the vast majority of people on earth believe in some version of God.

This is no longer the case. In many countries it is still a majority, but not a vast one.
A recent global survey into religiosity showed that even in places generally assumed to be exclusively religious, "non-religious" is surprisingly high (eg. Saudi Arabia is assumed to be like 99% Muslim but the study shows 6% confirmed atheist and 19% non-religious).

Just the existence of the earth and our own existence seems to be enough.

The fact that these are very poor reasons seems to explain why improved education usually leads to reduced religiosity.

 

[KWED]

I had an experience maybe 20 years ago while on a training ride on my bike. I was heading south on Ward Parkway and going about 25 mph. As I approached Gregory I had a very strong feeling to slow down even though I had the green light. Moments later an old woman drove right through the red light, and I estimate I would have been right in her line of travel. I doubt I would have survived as she was going about 40. That gave me a lot to think about. An atheist with a guardian angel. I'll take it.

In the last decade I've had impacts with four cars while on the bike, one head on. All four times the drivers were at fault. I was never seriously injured, but the head on collision sprained my wrists pretty bad for about a year. I was on the bike the next day after each collision.

The last collision I hit a van at about 25 mph and caused $1700 in damage. I won the state cyclocross championship a week later on that bike.

So maybe God knows I can take a hit.

This is a good illustration of the "Texas Sharpshooter" fallacy. The religionist would focus on the one (possibly) avoided crash as evidence of god looking out for them, and ignore the several other crashes that actually happened.

 

[KWED]

All I know is that the one true God has the same morals as me.

That's lucky, because I find the morals of most gods to be highly questionable.

 

[PureX]

I mentioned an experience I had 11 years ago when I almost got hit by two cars and something (or one's arm) went across my chest and pushed me back. Another similar incident wasn't that dramatic (no spirits iow) but two cars almost hit me and one so close I had to get a drink after crossing the street.

I called my Christian former friend and told her the 1st incident. My grandmother had just passed away then and first thing I said was thank you grandma but my friend thought it was god.

Now I don't believe deities exist but she got me thinking that if spiritual awakenings from atheist to theist were true my friend and I wouldn't have drawn two completely different conclusions from the same event.

Her prior knowledge of God lead her to that conclusion. My absence thereof by default did not.

So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?

(I've heard it used as proof of god's existence)

And if spiritual awakenings by default lead to God, why do people who share similar events come to completely different opposing conclusions?


Just a thought not a sermon

It's a mystery. So just thank the mystery. You didn't have to understand it for it to save you. So why do you have to understand it, now?

 

[KWED]

My understanding is that God the Creator desires all to be saved from sin, come to Him and have eternal life.

Then why does he make it so difficult for this to happen? Why does he put so many obstacles in the way?
It's like a teacher saying they want everyone to get an A+ in a test, but then gives most of the class the wrong book to revise from.

From my experience, I know I was spiritually blind and living in darkness until I actually realized I needed a Savior and trusted Jesus Christ. Before that time though, I did experience times where I had close calls with harm, but some power intervened and I was spared.

Why do you think he has repeatedly taken the time to spare you from harm, but ignores the prayers of millions of parents whose children are suffering and dying? Why are you so special? (It's this kind of self-centred dismissal of the suffering of others by some religionists that is so distasteful)

A non-Christian friend shared an amazing experience with me years ago. She was at a spiritual, new age retreat. One night she was asleep alone in her tent out in the forest. She said “someone” shook her arm, woke her up and said, Get Out! She quickly got out of her tent just before a large tree fell on it. She didn’t see anyone around... but her life was saved.
From my perspective, God sent an angel to save her life and give her further time and opportunity to trust Jesus as her Savior because

Without any corroborative evidence, such stories can be dismissed.

as the Bible says that He’s...not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
I know I was spared and given more opportunities to come to understand and realize I needed the Savior.

This is just the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy. Millions perish without repentance every day. Why doesn't he save them as well?

 

[KWED]

Hmm. There is an old saying "tie the camel and pray that it will be safe".

This is actually from a hadith.
One day Allah's Messenger noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I placed my trust in Allah." At that, the Prophet said, "Tie your camel and place your trust in Allah" - Tirmidhi

The gist is, "tie the camel first". I know this is not exactly relevant to your story above but that's a religious teaching that tells you to do what you think is your faith matters, but still, tie your camel or expect the natural things.

In reality, the story teaches nothing really because whatever action you take, the outcome will be exactly the same as if there is no god. Or it may teach that faith is irrelevant. Or that Muhammad knew that trusting in Allah might not deliver the desired outcome, despite his own claims.

 

[KWED]

Helen Keller was blind and deaf from the age of 2 in 1882 and when eventually she was able to communicate and was told about God, she said that she already knew of God. She had experienced God without being told.

She experienced a sense of some greater power, but not the god described in the Bible or any other religious text.

I wonder if our thinking can lead us away from that innate knowledge.

It isn't "innate knowledge". It is an innate tendency to imagine there is some supernatural agency at work.
Neither Keller's sense of something nor the other person's belief in Christianity are necessarily anything more than a trick of the mind.

Atheists say that the default state is atheism but Helen shows otherwise.

No one is born with a belief in any kind of religion. That must be taught.

 

[firedragon]

All I know is that the one true God has the same morals as me.

How do you know?

 

[firedragon]

Helen Keller was blind and deaf from the age of 2 in 1882 and when eventually she was able to communicate and was told about God, she said that she already knew of God. She had experienced God without being told.
I wonder if our thinking can lead us away from that innate knowledge.
Atheists say that the default state is atheism but Helen shows otherwise.

The truth is, when atheists make that claim you cited above, they dont have any research but guesswork.

But there is research that data to make your innate knowledge assumption. Some atheists dismiss it committing the genetic fallacy which I definitely think is bigotry. But not all atheists. The educated ones give sophisticated answers but accept research.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Belief, not knowledge. And many hundreds of gods.

As we know, all belief is uncertain, and we may be mistaken.


Only if you assume traditional religious myths first. Rational thinkers avoid that error.

Not this rational thinker. Just the human body is enough to make me understand that there has to be a creator. And nature just screams design to anyone willing to pay attention.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The truth is, when atheists make that claim you cited above, they dont have any research but guesswork.

But there is research that data to make your innate knowledge assumption. Some atheists dismiss it committing the genetic fallacy which I definitely think is bigotry. But not all atheists. The educated ones give sophisticated answers but accept research.

Yeah, that is likely the case. I have read hypotheses that chimpanzees display proto-religious behavior. That is no evidence of God, that means that they have proto-religious behavior.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not this rational thinker. Just the human body is enough to make me understand that there has to be a creator. And nature just screams design to anyone willing to pay attention.

Yeah, that is your subjective understanding. I have another subjective understanding.