My experience and gods existence

[Wildswanderer]

Yeah, that is your subjective understanding. I have another subjective understanding.

All evidence for everything can be seen as subjective. Shrug.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

All evidence for everything can be seen as subjective. Shrug.

No, not quite. Everything is not you, you are a part and the rest is objective as not you. If you can show that everything is you, then yes. If no, then I can get away believing in the objective and thus it works. So it is both subjective and objective and that is what the world is. You and the rest. The rest is objective.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No, not quite. Everything is not you, you are a part and the rest is objective as not you. If you can show that everything is you, then yes. If no, then I can get away believing in the objective and thus it works. So it is both subjective and objective and that is what the world is. You and the rest. The rest is objective.

Everything is not you? What does that even mean?

Maybe I'm just an illusion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Everything is not you? What does that even mean?

Maybe I'm just an illusion.

Then you are not me.

 

[F1fan]

All I know is that the one true God has the same morals as me.

Quite a coincidence. The gods of theists tend to have the same morals as the believer. If only the believers agreed with each other.

 

[F1fan]

I think the reality is that each person is at a different place in their personal experiences and understanding, so everyone comes to different conclusions. My understanding is that God the Creator desires all to be saved from sin, come to Him and have eternal life. From my experience, I know I was spiritually blind and living in darkness until I actually realized I needed a Savior and trusted Jesus Christ. Before that time though, I did experience times where I had close calls with harm, but some power intervened and I was spared.

This is understanding what Christian dogma teaches. It isn't a factual set of ideas. Most people have the biological trait to adopt religious norms from society, but as we see this varies from one person to the next. Non-believers don't have this trait.

Believers don't existence God. They create experiences from what they learn from the religious influence.

A non-Christian friend shared an amazing experience with me years ago. She was at a spiritual, new age retreat. One night she was asleep alone in her tent out in the forest. She said “someone” shook her arm, woke her up and said, Get Out! She quickly got out of her tent just before a large tree fell on it. She didn’t see anyone around... but her life was saved.
From my perspective, God sent an angel to save her life and give her further time and opportunity to trust Jesus as her Savior because as the Bible says that He’s...
...not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

I know I was spared and given more opportunities to come to understand and realize I needed the Savior.

As an atheist I have had similar experiences of intuition. Why does it suggest a supernatural at work? I am skeptical of a supernatural phenomenon, like a loving God, since we see so many children not being saved by miracles in cancer wards. It might be that some folks just have a natural sense of impending danger just like other animals do.

 

[1213]

...
So, I ask believers who have opinions of nonbelievers having spiritual awakenings, has there been any where the person did not have preexisting knowledge of God?...

I think that is interesting question. Difficult to know. Would be nice to know how people got the first idea of God. In atheistic point of view, I have understood that, at some point some human just thought it is nice idea to start to speak about god. In that case person would not have had preexisting knowledge, so where would the idea have come? I don't know, but by what I have seen, people usually are really poor to imagine anything that they have not seen or heard. This is why I believe the idea of God is not from humans.

 

[F1fan]

I knew a person who came to Planet Baha'i. Nothing special had happened, but he woke up one day and went from atheist to a believer in God. Her felt a connection to God he claimed. He had what I would consider strange theology about God. His understanding evolved over time, and after a while heard nothing from him again. Have no idea how he ended up. He was a speed reader and read the whole Old Testament and New Testament in a short amount of time, and at first concluded that the Old Testament God was not the same God as the New Testament. Then he changed his mind. I don't know where he evolved from there.

Those who claimed to have been an atheist and became a theist were never atheists for intellectual reasons, they just weren't religious.

My conclusion is that anyone can be spiritually awakened. He didn't try to convert us to his theology. The fact that he didn't try to convert us means to me that he did have a genuine spiritual awakening.

Those who come to be actively religious are at a point in life they are devoid of meaning and are seeking connection with others, and religion is an easy way to access a community. Religions are also highly tribal, so that really attracts a person in need of feeling belonging.

I understand theists want to see their belief and experiences as authentic at face value, but there is a lot going on in the psychology of believers and the community they belong to.

 

[F1fan]

I think that is interesting question. Difficult to know. Would be nice to know how people got the first idea of God. In atheistic point of view, I have understood that, at some point some human just thought it is nice idea to start to speak about god. In that case person would not have had preexisting knowledge, so where would the idea have come? I don't know, but by what I have seen, people usually are really poor to imagine anything that they have not seen or heard. This is why I believe the idea of God is not from humans.

Yet we see artifacts from primitive people of how they symbolized animals and other aspects of nature. Gods are just symbolic forms of humans. The God of Abraham is highly based on the patriarchal ideal of a mortal leader. God is male, he sits on a throne, he has emotions with both vices and virtues, etc. It's called anthropomorphism.

 

[F1fan]

All evidence for everything can be seen as subjective. Shrug.

That's why we value objective methods and evidence over subjectivity.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Then you are not me.

I never thought I was, lol!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I never thought I was, lol!

So there are 2 parts to the world, you and the rest.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's why we value objective methods and evidence over subjectivity.

Such as?

 

[Wildswanderer]

So there are 2 parts to the world, you and the rest.

No, there is an almost infinite number of parts to the world.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, there is an almost infinite number of parts to the world.

And that is your subjective belief without evidence?

 

[F1fan]

That's why we value objective methods and evidence over subjectivity.

Such as?

Such as science. Reputable journalism. Court cases. One's own search for truth.

 

[Wildswanderer]

That's why we value objective methods and evidence over subjectivity.


Such as science. Reputable journalism. Court cases. One's own search for truth.

This is all about one's own search for truth. Journalism? Really? Science changes all the time. What does a court case even have to do with the subject?

 

[Wildswanderer]

And that is your subjective belief without evidence?

You don't think nature is evidence?

 

[InChrist]

Then why does he make it so difficult for this to happen? Why does he put so many obstacles in the way?
It's like a teacher saying they want everyone to get an A+ in a test, but then gives most of the class the wrong book to revise from.

Why do you think he has repeatedly taken the time to spare you from harm, but ignores the prayers of millions of parents whose children are suffering and dying? Why are you so special? (It's this kind of self-centred dismissal of the suffering of others by some religionists that is so distasteful)

Without any corroborative evidence, such stories can be dismissed.

This is just the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy. Millions perish without repentance every day. Why doesn't he save them as well?

Who says it’s difficult? Maybe people make it difficult The gospel message is simple enough for a child to comprehend. As well, the majesty of creation testifies of a Creator.
I am certainly no more special than anyone else. I was definitely not praying or acknowledging God when He intervened into my life, more like ignoring. Possibly I was even more dense to understand or comprehend God, so He intervened to give me more time. I don’t know, but God does and I expect He knows what is or isn’t necessary for each individual person to give them ample opportunity to come to Him.

Definitely seeing suffering is hard, especially children. The fact is though that this is a fallen world full of suffering. The scriptures are clear that suffering is the result of a world tainted and damaged by sin. Jesus came into the world and suffered Himself. He did not come to permanently alleviate suffering from this world. He came to offer deliverance from sin and permanent eternal life in a new heaven and new earth free of suffering.
Of course, you or anyone are free to dismiss testimonies of God or God Himself. That’s what it’s all about receiving or rejecting.

 

[InChrist]

This is understanding what Christian dogma teaches. It isn't a factual set of ideas. Most people have the biological trait to adopt religious norms from society, but as we see this varies from one person to the next. Non-believers don't have this trait.

Believers don't existence God. They create experiences from what they learn from the religious influence.


As an atheist I have had similar experiences of intuition. Why does it suggest a supernatural at work? I am skeptical of a supernatural phenomenon, like a loving God, since we see so many children not being saved by miracles in cancer wards. It might be that some folks just have a natural sense of impending danger just like other animals do.

Thanks for your thoughts.
I don’t think we see miracles or children being saved from cancer, or anyone for that matter, because God’s plan isn’t to fix this world or remove suffering. Instead, He came into the world and suffered in order to provide a way out and deliverance from sin and suffering for eternity in a new heaven and earth.