My boss is replacing all his employees with Jehovah's Witnesses

[Quagmire]

Hey Alceste, another thing you can do is sneak over to the store one night and change the name to Watch Tower Records.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_Records

 

[Pegg]

My boss is a JW. A little while back he let go a long time employee and hired a JW to replace her. Then he hired another person who I met today. Turns out she is also a JW. Meanwhile he is making all kinds of noises to the two of us who are not JW that he needs to cut back on our hours "to save a few bucks", but I can't help but notice every shift we get shaved off our schedules is going to these JWs, who get paid the same as we do (I know, because I do the books).

Should I sue him or just quit? If I quit, should I do it in a fit of rage and cussing or should I properly train the JW who he has apparently pegged to replace me first?

I would approach him and bring up your concerns with him. Keep a record of the shifts that are being cut back and see if the hours are going to other employees.

 

[Otherright]

No. Our shifts are staggered.

Then yes, you do have a case, if, and only if, you disclosed the nature of your religion at the interview or if on your application you specifically mentioned that you can't work Sundays (or whatever day). Otherwise, they'd have a case to terminate for failure to meet basic conditions of employment.

I know it sucks, but religious right does not trump everything in our secular society and it is slowly losing its power.

 

[Otherright]

Since she mentioned it recently, I hope Alceste doesn't mind me saying that she's in Canada. That "8 employees or less" rule doesn't generally apply here... not in Ontario, anyhow. I'm not sure if there's provincial legislation to similar effect where Alceste is.


Again, this is a point of difference in law between Canada and the US. In Canada, it's legal for a participant in a conversation to record it, even without the permission or knowledge of the other participants.

Is it legal to record a private conversation? Wiretapping and the one party consent exception to the rule against interception | LegalTree.ca

Oh, well then I'm useless here. I don't know Canadian law. I assumed she was a US resident. My mistake.

I do personally think that her boss has a moral obligation to his employees, especially those that are loyal to him. But, we are talking law. Morality and law don't go hand in hand.

 

[Revoltingest]

I go with Pegg's idea. Talk to'm.

 

[Alceste]

Alceste, if I knew where you were, I may be able to advise you better. Unfortunately, if you are in the US, there may not be a great deal you can do, especially if this is a small company that has eight employees or less, as federal discriminatory laws don't apply to them.

The discrimination may be obvious, but unlike a movie, it is almost impossible to prove. That's why we make movies about true stories where someone prove discrimination, because it blows everyone's mind that they were able to prove it.

Sorry to break it to you, but if your employer decided to get rid of you, he could cite anything from insubordination to lack of work, and you'd be gone. Any claim you made afterward would be secondary in court, and would only damage your credibility to a court.

I'm in Canada. Our labour laws are quite a bit stronger than in the US. This guy has been sued successfully for labour violations before, but the person who told me that didn't clarify what the offense was or who sued him.

I don't think I'm going to sue him though - as I said before I'm still waiting for my insane ex-landlord to pay up - been waiting for 5 years. To send a bailiff after her I would have to pay out of pocket, and there are no guarantees. I don't want to go through all that hassle for a man I know doesn't pay his debts.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh, well then I'm useless here. I don't know Canadian law. I assumed she was a US resident. My mistake.

No worries. I only knew that she was Canadian because it's come up before and as a Canadian myself, I took notice of it.

I do personally think that her boss has a moral obligation to his employees, especially those that are loyal to him. But, we are talking law. Morality and law don't go hand in hand.

... or morality and religion, apparently.

 

[YmirGF]

It's not very enjoyable now, to be honest. He "promoted" me to store manager without a raise when the last girl left, but rejects all my ideas. So I can't improve anything, but I get all the accountability when things go wrong and complaints come in, as they do on a daily basis. I'm already looking for other jobs. Ideally, I want one full time job instead of 3 part time jobs.

If you want my advice, Alceste, I don't think I would bother making waves. Call it a feeling, if you like, but it doesn't sound like a HRC decision would actually give you much more than a moral victory. For example, you could get a court order for him to pay after any positive decision, but he could drag his feet for years. Personally, I don't think it sounds like it would be worth it for the paltry amount you'd likely get.

Likewise, I don't think it is very smart to try to sabotage his business. From the sounds of it, he is already doing a pretty good job of that himself. I'd let nature take its course and look for other opportunities. My 2 cents.

 

[james2ko]

Then yes, you do have a case, if, and only if, you disclosed the nature of your religion at the interview or if on your application you specifically mentioned that you can't work Sundays (or whatever day). Otherwise, they'd have a case to terminate for failure to meet basic conditions of employment.

I know it sucks, but religious right does not trump everything in our secular society and it is slowly losing its power.

That may be. All I know is they added a whole new shift and rescinded a long standing rule as an accommodation.

 

[Alceste]

I go with Pegg's idea. Talk to'm.

Nobody can talk to him. Not even his customers can talk to him, or the other employees. I think he's losing his wits. In addition to being argumentative, pushy and defensive, he never really seems to be able to understand what a conversation is actually about and he forgets it happened immediately after it's finished.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nobody can talk to him. Not even his customers can talk to him, or the other employees. I think he's losing his wits. In addition to being argumentative, pushy and defensive, he never really seems to be able to understand what a conversation is actually about and he forgets it happened immediately after it's finished.

I figgered it could be difficult. But you might be surprised at your ability to control the direction of a conversation.

 

[Alceste]

If you want my advice, Alceste, I don't think I would bother making waves. Call it a feeling, if you like, but it doesn't sound like a HRC decision would actually give you much more than a moral victory. For example, you could get a court order for him to pay after any positive decision, but he could drag his feet for years. Personally, I don't think it sounds like it would be worth it for the paltry amount you'd likely get.

Likewise, I don't think it is very smart to try to sabotage his business. From the sounds of it, he is already doing a pretty good job of that himself. I'd let nature take its course and look for other opportunities. My 2 cents.

That's my feeling too - winning a lawsuit is a huge pain in the *** when the loser won't pay.

I have been applying for jobs, but haven't been getting any bites. I may need to give my resume an overhaul to make me look way less qualified than I am - the available full time work around here that pays better than what I make now is mostly office admin for small businesses. I'm way beyond that.

I will keep track of things though, just in case I change my mind about filing a complaint. The disappearance of long-time, experienced employees and the sudden appearance of inexperienced JW's from his church is easy enough to prove, and I still bump into them so I can easily find out what they were told when they were laid off.

 

[Alceste]

I figgered it could be difficult. But you might be surprised at your ability to control the direction of a conversation.

Lol - you don't think I've tried? I'm supposed to be managing the store. Every time I try to actually "manage" something it involves one of these impossible conversations. I can only control the direction of conversations where the other party is listening, understanding and responding to what I've said. Here's an example - this exact conversation happened yesterday:

"Hey Boss, I have a lady on the phone who wants to know how long it takes to get a trumpet set up"
"Which lady?"

"The lady on the phone. How long does it take to get a trumpet set up?"

"Where did she get this trumpet? Is she a student? Is it rented?"

"She just needs to know how long it takes to get a trumpet set up. I didn't ask her any of this because it isn't relevant to her question"

"Did she buy it here?"

"Sorry, but she's waiting on the phone. She just needs to know how many days it's going to take. Two? Three? Four? A week?"

"What does she want done to it?"

"You know, valve oil - the keys are sticky, maybe some replacement pads"

"Did she buy it here?"

"Sorry, but do you have an answer I can give her? Three days? Can I tell her three days?"

"First of all, that's not called a 'set-up'"

Me to the lady: "About three days".

That's EVERY conversation.

 

[Revoltingest]

Lol - you don't think I've tried?

I've no doubt. But I always encourage it, because most people underestimate their ability.

 

[Otherright]

I would approach him and bring up your concerns with him. Keep a record of the shifts that are being cut back and see if the hours are going to other employees.

Of course, this situation is in Canada, so I don't know if she could do it or not.

If it were here, in the US, I wouldn't advise this tactic. The best strategy to defeat another in court is to look at it from the other side's point of view. What would you do to defeat their motions or evidences in order to force them to come to the table with the least amount of leverage.

If I were the lawyer for the other team, I would use one of two tactics to have that inadmissible.

If she recorded the schedules herself, I'd call it hearsay, based on the fact that she can not answer for anyone but herself. Nor can she prove, unless she stayed there 24/7 who was working what shift.

If she provided a copy of the schedule, I'd have it rejected on the grounds that the schedule is company property. If that failed, I'd call it circumstantial in that the schedule only provides a summary of what is scheduled, not what is actually worked.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against you Alceste, I'm just telling you where you are going to lose.

 

[Otherright]

I'm in Canada. Our labour laws are quite a bit stronger than in the US. This guy has been sued successfully for labour violations before, but the person who told me that didn't clarify what the offense was or who sued him.

I don't think I'm going to sue him though - as I said before I'm still waiting for my insane ex-landlord to pay up - been waiting for 5 years. To send a bailiff after her I would have to pay out of pocket, and there are no guarantees. I don't want to go through all that hassle for a man I know doesn't pay his debts.

Good for you. Its better that you don't. There is no reason to submit yourself to a costly legal battle if you don't have to. Especially, if the end result may not be anything other than him paying your court costs, giving you an apology, and paying the state a fine.

Litigation is not the answer to everything. The best thing you can do in this case, is tell him he's a dick, then move on to something better in life. Remove yourself from the situation.

 

[Willamena]

Does your province have a human rights tribunal? That's probably a good alternative to taking your boss to court.

Edit: either way, start documenting stuff now. Maybe you won't use it later, but if you do need it, it might come in handy.

That was my first thought, too (ack!).

 

[the-jesusist]

According to wiki: Jehovah's Witnesses consider secular society to be morally corrupt and under the influence of Satan, and limit their social interaction with non-Witnesses. Maybe your boss considers work to be social interaction. JW's keep to themselves and take care of each other. But sometimes in the process they forget the teachings of Jesus. "Love God. Love your neighbor. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" And of course the golden rule is a must. My advice, convert to JW.

 

[T-Dawg]

I'm shocked and appalled by the fact that multiple people are actually suggesting that Alceste convert to JW.

Even if you somehow managed to justify a belief in JW (a form of Christianity) morally and intellectually, her becoming a JW wouldn't stop the boss' practice from being illegal.

(Of course, I think most of the suggestions saying to become a JW were jokes, but at least one appeared serious.)

 

[YmirGF]

I have been applying for jobs, but haven't been getting any bites. I may need to give my resume an overhaul to make me look way less qualified than I am - the available full time work around here that pays better than what I make now is mostly office admin for small businesses. I'm way beyond that.

That's wise. Tailor your apps for your target business. Leave out millions of things. Only specify what is relevant to their business and why they should choose you over everyone else. It also helps to put the app on odd size paper or coloured. Don't use scented paper, lol. I know I always spent time looking over "different" resumes. Over-qualified people with resources up the wazoo, generally got pitched in the garbage. I'm just sayin'.

I will keep track of things though, just in case I change my mind about filing a complaint. The disappearance of long-time, experienced employees and the sudden appearance of inexperienced JW's from his church is easy enough to prove, and I still bump into them so I can easily find out what they were told when they were laid off.

That would be prudent, but I wouldn't put that much effort into it unless you hadn't had any nibbles in a month or so.