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Muslim: 'An Islamic perspective'
- Thread starter Laila
- Start date
Laila
Active Member
Ishmaïl said:
Not all Muslim countries enforce barbaric punishments, but yes countries that enforce them need to stop.
but no, not the above. what I meant was the way women (people) are treated in general. Again this is another stereotype, but there are a lot of women who are denied basic rights, such as an education - that is backwards.
Ishmaïl
New Member
I mean people know that adultery illegal sexual intercourse is not allowed in islam. And punishment for that is stoned to death. That it. You cant change the law of God. Stoning is a hard punishment but people should learn from that. People should use there brains before they have sex with a someone else before marriage. adultery is disgusting.
Well i think i knew what ur talking abt; if u mean that scarf which the egyptian peasant woman (fallahah) wear, yes its cultural (and maybe its influenced by religion in the first place) but usually it does not cover the whole hair, revealing the neck and maybe a part of the bosom plus she can show her hair in anytime. But this has nothing to do with what we are talking about, we can't call this "hijab".Laila said:
when u said masr el adima, i guessed it might be something like this
:
It's supposed that a muslim woman can be distinguished by her clothes (i.e. hijab). sicnce the egyptian society began to be conservative and become more interested in religion sicne 1990s, more and more egyptian muslim women began to return to the islamic teachings and tended to wear hijab so that u can distinguish a muslim woman from a christian one usually by hijab. But ofcourse this is not applied in all cases. Hijab now is dominating the egyptian society and even the niqaab is beginning to prevail too. I just heard 2day that an egyptian actress declared that she decided to wear hijab and many well-educated and intellectual women wear hijab which they can take off in any moment but they don't simply cuz they dont want to displease their God.
This an an egyptian actress who chose to follow orders of Allah and wear hijab.
And alhamdulillah the number of veiled woman is increasing every day
BTW the egyptian society from around 30 years was relatively liberal and there was nothing called hijab; almost all women were wearing miniskirts and if a girl took the risk of wearing hijab, the others would make fun of her, (of course the country is excluded from all this cuz ppl there have their own traditional clothes).
Anyway, saying that hijab is an arabic culture is a fake. Hijab (including the head cover) is one of the fundamental teachings of Islam regardless of being arab or not.
Laila
Active Member
I'm not sure, I can't quite remember any differences, but I was young However, I do remember the jilbab's; the scarfs were not like the actress above but they were not hung loosely either - hmm.......I'll have to visit again.
If women want to wear hijab good for them, but to say it is absolutely compulsory I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree.
However, I do remember the jilbab's; the scarfs were not like the actress above but they were not hung loosely either - hmm.......I'll have to visit again.If women want to wear hijab good for them, but to say it is absolutely compulsory I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree.
jamaesi
To Save A Lamb
Its certainly impossible. But changing your hair color to please your creator is'nt. Thats what i'm getting at
Sexuality is not changable without repression and severe mental damage.
The difference is I do not see why expressing love in the way I was made is disgusting or horrible or forbidden.
And I'm adopting children no matter who I marry.
I'm disabled, having my own children is not possible. So yeah, having kids- they won't be biologically mine, but they will be my children.Modern science says that changing someone's orientation is impossible without causing repression and severe mental damage - how many times have I repeated this?
You're free to PM me.
And you seem to be willfully ignorant of modern and unbiased research on homosexuality.
AbuQuteiba
Active Member
Laila said:
I know stoning is barbaric. Thats why the Prophet stoned people. Because he was barbaric right? Whats barbaric is not stoping these sicknesses. Stoping adultery, rape and all crimes is what's merciful.
AbuQuteiba
Active Member
jamaesi said:Sexuality is not changable without repression and severe mental damage.
The difference is I do not see why expressing love in the way I was made is disgusting or horrible or forbidden.
And I'm adopting children no matter who I marry.
Modern science says that changing someone's orientation is impossible without causing repression and severe mental damage - how many times have I repeated this?
You're free to PM me.
And you seem to be willfully ignorant of modern and unbiased research on homosexuality.
We ca'nt see why many things are forbidden. Yet we follow Allah's order's, "And that (the believer's say), we hear and we obey" [bagara]. Hehe. something else you're ignorant of. There's no adoption in Islam. So actually, no, they won't be your children r(we can further go into this if you like).
Could you please show us a case where repression and sever mental damage was caused?
maro
muslimah
so , u have read those versesLaila said:
59:7
"....and whatsoever the messenger giveth you , take it , and whatsover he forbiddeth , abstain (from it )..."
53:3-4
"nor doth he speaks of his own desire
it is an inspiration that is inspired "
62:2
" it's he who has sent among the unlettered ones a messenger of their own , to recite onto them his revelations and to sanctify them , and to teach them the scripture and wisdom ,although they had been , in manifest error "
I have quetions for u
do u consider urself a modern scholar who have enough knowledge to re interpret the quran ?!!
do u consider ur interpretation of the verse of hijab is better than that of the wives of the prophet ( pbuh) ?
and what if someone came up and said , I did (ijtihad ) and i decided that all prayers are going to be ( 2 rak'a ) , because the quran did mention , how many Rak'as in each prayer ?
re interpreting the verses , is completely different from twisting their meaning to fit with what we want ,
is completely different from rejecting the sunnah of the prophet ,
is completely different from when being threatened by the verses of allah , we reply (so be it )
Peace
Quran & Sunnah
Laila said:
Allah tells us to obey Him and His Prophet salla lah `alayhi wa sallam. Since he tells us to obey His Prophet so we must obey him, and how is that? by following his Sunnah and tradition and the wisdom he left for all his companions and all the Muslim generations to come till the day of Judgement.
Laila said:
Wrong sister. The Hikmah in those two verses is the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh, you can go and read the tafsir and be sure of that. Also Allah addresses Prophet Muhammad sws in those two verses.
You cannot understand the Quran without the Sunnah sister, and you cannot understand the Sunnah without the Quran. Both the Quran and the Sunnah are the sources of the True Islam.
Would you have a look at the following link to have a clear and a better idea about the hadith and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/brief1/
Laila said:
Don't you realize sister that the majority of Muslims follow the Sunnah? so is it possible that the majority of Mulims are wrong and the few ones who reject it are right??!
Don't you know sister that rejecting the Sunnah is a sign of absence of love of the Prophet who is sent a mercy to the world?
The Prophet is more worthy of the believers than themselves [Al-Ahzaab: 6] This means that the believer should love the Prophet peace be upon him more than he loves his own self. This love entails full obedience, submission and acceptance and following his way and his sunnah; it also entails favouring the Prophet SWS over oneself, ones family and ones wealth, and to surrender to the Prophet SWS the controlling direction that one has over himself.
Imaam Al-Qurtubi, may Allah have mercy upon him, added: It is to believe in his prophethood, to love those who supported him, to hate those who hate him, to glorify his Sunnah and revive, defend and spread it, as well as calling people to it and imitating him in his morals and conduct.
May Allah guide your way and open your eyes to the Truth, ameen!
Peace
Laila
Active Member
champion said:
Don't speak about the Prophet like that, how can you say such a thing? The Prophet didn't even hate the person who lay thorns in his path!
Now I will ask you where you got your information from and you are going to tell me from a Hadith (do not forget that the Prophet had many enemies). I reject any such Hadith, unless you find me proof from the Quran that the Prophet carried out stoning.
jamaesi
To Save A Lamb
And YOU'RE telling me I don't know anything about my own religion? Adoption IS part of Islam- but with many considerations, adoption in Islam is more like the modern American version of foster care. Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) was an orphan himself, adopted a child, and said that whoever adopted a child would be as close to him as two fingers of the same hand in Paradise.
It doesn't matter if the children are not biologically mine, I will still treat them like I would my own children.
Sure thing.
From Wikipedia....
The American Psychological Association's position is that human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight, and that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. In fact, the Association goes even further, stating that:[16]
Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.
The American Psychiatric Association has stated that:[17]
Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so.
The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated that:[2]
Confusion about sexual orientation is not unusual during adolescence. Counseling may be helpful for young people who are uncertain about their sexual orientation or for those who are uncertain about how to express their sexuality and might profit from an attempt at clarification through a counseling or psychotherapeutic initiative. Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation.
Other organisations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association developed and endorsed a joint statement in 1999 reading:
The most important fact about "reparative therapy," also sometimes known as "conversion" therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a "cure." ...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through "reparative therapy" and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.
Some proponents of the ex-gay movement believe that sexuality is changeable in later life but that homosexuality is not sinful. Some opponents feel the same (see Religion and homosexuality) but condemn the ex-gay movement on the grounds that it is unnecessary, counter-productive, or both.
Because of several well-publicized failures and the political nature of the subject, the ex-gay movement has been extensively ridiculed by gay rights activists, who charge that the suppression of homosexuality only leads to inappropriate outbursts thereof and contributes to fear and suffering. Author and former Human Rights Campaign spokesperson Wayne Besen has extensively covered the ex-gay movement and describes it in his book Anything But Straight: Unmasking The Scandals and Lies Behind the "Ex-Gay" Myth, which also deals with so-called reparative therapy of homosexuality. It was Besen who photographed John Paulk leaving a gay bar and who investigated witnesses in the case of Michael Johnston (see above).
A recent survey by two gay psychologists, Michael Schroeder and Ariel Shidlo (2002), of those who have undergone various conversion therapies indicates that while there are indeed some who claim to have maintained a change in behaviour and a very small number who report a change in orientation, these are far fewer than ex-gay organisations such as Exodus and Narth regularly claim and are outnumbered by those left with worsened problems of depression, anxiety and alcohol/drug addiction.[18] The two Schroder/Shidlo papers suggest that part of the problem is that many conversion therapists fail to conform to professional guidelines, for example, by pressuring patients into undergoing one line of treatment and by failing to provide any support or recommend alternative help for those who fail to sustain any change. The discrepancy between the Exodus/Narth estimates of success of conversion therapies and those of other bodies appears to be explained by the fact that many former ex-gays report having falsely reported success to their therapists for a prolonged time. It is worth noting that 7 out of the 8 respondents who reported a change in sexual preferences to Schroeder and Shidlo were employed as counsellors by various Ex-gay groups (something which also applies to the more widely-publicised study by Spitzer, which only focused on a group of successes picked by the ex-gay groups and had a more cursory interview technique based on telephone conversation only). In the light of Wayne Besen's comments outlined above and the experiences of groups such as Courage Trust in the UK, there is scope for scepticism even about these few reported successes.
Laila
Active Member
maro said:
Today I will quote from the Quran translation on Cordoba's 'Quranic quotes' thread.
And what Allāh restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns â it is for Allāh and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and orphans and the [stranded] traveler â so that it will not be a perpetual distribution among the rich from among you. And whatever the Messenger has given you â take; and what he has forbidden you â refrain from. And fear Allāh; indeed, Allāh is severe in penalty. (59:7)
This verse is about the spoils of war.
The share for 'Allah and His Messenger' is a metonym for the Islamic cause.
This verse talks about the sharing out of the booty, take whatever the Messenger has given you from the booty. This would be, in later times, the head of an Islamic state, who has to decide - in the light of his exigencies - how the share for the Islamic cause is to be utilised for the general welfare of the categories stated in the verse
Your companion [Muúammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed, (Surah 53, verses 2-4)
Allah is telling us that the Quran is a divine writ,
The Hadith written after the death of the Prophet(pbuh) do not come into the same category
It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom â although they were before in clear error â (62:2)
Laila
Active Member
maro said:
I will try once again to make this clear.
We have a complete historical record of the life, character, conduct, sayings and action of the Prophet Mohammad (saw), preserved with meticulous care, accuracy and detail(after authentication). Since this cannot be said of other Prophets we can believe in them, but we cannot emulate them. The Hadith cannot equal, excel or abrogate a verse in the Quran.
Laila
Active Member
It is easy to refute the Christian argument by referring to his own Bible. In
a similar way the "muslim" scholar who insists on giving eminence to
fabricated hadith can be countered by referring to his own books written by
the hands of their leaders like Imam Bukhari, without God's permission.
In Sura Al Baqarah, God says : Therefore woe to those who distort the
scripture with their own hands then say; "This is from God" Seeking a cheap
gain. Woe to them for distorting the scripture, and woe to them for their
illicit earnings."
As stated earlier the hadith of Bukhari is not worth the paper it is printed
on. By following such ludicrous hadith which clearly taint the good name of
the Prophet Muhammed, the Muslims have been lost for over 1000 years now.
They can only recall the glorious days of the Prophet. Little do they realize
that during the glorious days there was no hadith. There was only the Quran.
a similar way the "muslim" scholar who insists on giving eminence to
fabricated hadith can be countered by referring to his own books written by
the hands of their leaders like Imam Bukhari, without God's permission.
In Sura Al Baqarah, God says : Therefore woe to those who distort the
scripture with their own hands then say; "This is from God" Seeking a cheap
gain. Woe to them for distorting the scripture, and woe to them for their
illicit earnings."
As stated earlier the hadith of Bukhari is not worth the paper it is printed
on. By following such ludicrous hadith which clearly taint the good name of
the Prophet Muhammed, the Muslims have been lost for over 1000 years now.
They can only recall the glorious days of the Prophet. Little do they realize
that during the glorious days there was no hadith. There was only the Quran.
Laila
Active Member
Those who refused to believe God in His book, the Quran that the Quran is complete, perfect and fully detailed are deprived by God from performing the correct Salat. God let them wonder in the dark and pick bets and pieces that nullified their Salat for them. They insisted that God is not enough for them and God insisted on leaving them in the dark. God did not wrong them but they are the ones who wronged their own souls. The following are some specific examples of how Salat has been corrupted and lost its form as given by God and as practiced by the Prophet Muhammad himself . It is the corrupted scholars and their blind followers who practice this corruption up to this time.
http://www.submission.org/salat-where.html
http://www.submission.org/salat-where.html