Muslim: 'An Islamic perspective'

[Laila]

When did I say you disregard the Quran is there a hidden meaning in your message?]/quote] You disregard the Quran when you disregard the commands of the Sunnah of the Messenger

It does, the Quran says, OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER. the Prophet pbuh laid down the rules concerning hijab. You disregard it you disregard the Quran. I believe I have stated the evidence in my post.

Exactly, so When Allah says to obey the Messenger in your mind this is not the upper limits as you say.


Wow, la howla wala quwatta illah billah.

Wow, you obviously do not know and you have know idea about what the Quran says about the companions.

You are not sunni for you reject the sunnah, the verses in the Quran are abrogated by verses in the Quran, but since your knowledge is obviously limited in terms of tafsir you would not know that.

You say it every time you reject an authentic hadith from the Messenger.
Yes please show me from evidence in the Quran exactly how to pray. Step by Step.


I have only determined my assumption off of your answers which lack evidence to support it. I didn't underestimate you but you are discrediting your ownself, by stating you are sunni yet you do not accept parts of the sunnah. what are you talking about. You are just like any Christian who rejects the old testament and only accepts the New.

Wake up sister learn your religion arees.org

Ask the sheihk about it
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Quit denying half of your religion and follow the guide of Muhammed and obey his commands. The Authority and Importance of the Sunnah - Religious Education

The evidence is clear.

The Quran never says follow the Sunna and Hadith of the messenger. It says follow the messenger [who is delivering the message of Allah (the Quran)]. So it means to follow the Quran, since the Prophet (bpuh) is no longer here.
Are you telling me I should follow, blindly, what was written of his sayings (Hadith) many years later. No, the Prophet also had many enemies, do not forget. It is wrong to follow Hadith which go against the message of the Quran.

You're telling me to learn my religion? That is ever so rude!

 

[Laila]

Wow, you obviously do not know and you have know idea about what the Quran says about the companions.

what is your understanding of this brother? Could you quote the verses please.

You are not sunni for you reject the sunnah, the verses in the Quran are abrogated by verses in the Quran, but since your knowledge is obviously limited in terms of tafsir you would not know that.

Well, I wouldn't say limited, I do read the tafsirs, but isn't it time we progressed from 7th century Arabia?
The tafsir (interpretation) is not set in stone. I think the problem lies with separating culture and religion. I'm not a lone woman, sitting at home re-interpreting, I have links with a forward thinking group at Oxford (with Islamic scholars) - I do discuss my ideas with other people.

Quit denying half of your religion and follow the guide of Muhammed and obey his commands. The Authority and Importance of the Sunnah - Religious Education

The evidence is clear.

Thank for the link, I've read through it.
At no point have you quoted from the Quran that is specifically says follow the Hadith and Sunna of the messenger. It says obey Allah and obey the messenger. Since the messenger is delivering the message of Allah, it is quite clear that the meaning of this is to obey the message (the Quran), since the Prophet (pbuh) is not physically with us.
You also quoted another verse which is:
One important phrase of this verse is, "he teaches them the Book and the Hikmah." What, in addition to the Book or the Quran, was also revealed to the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh)? Allah says, "Allah has revealed to you the Book and the Hikmah and taught you what you knew not (before): and great is the Grace of Allah unto you" (al-Nissa 113). Allah also says, Solemnly recall Allah's favors on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and the Hikmah for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well-acquainted with all things" (al-Baqarah 231)

This verse is not specifically adressing the Prophet (pbuh).
The book is the revelation. The Hikmah is wisdom, God has given us the gift of a spirit.
The Hikmah is not the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh).

Brother Mujahid, in no way do I say that I am right and everybody else is wrong, however people have a God given right to reinterpret the Noble Quran - to deny this right to them is not just.
I hope to improve my Islamic knowledge everyday, to search for the 'true Islam'.

 

[maro]

I think this might be useful here

The Conditions of La ilaha illa-llah..........Part III

The third condition of the shahadah is acceptance(al Qabool )
If a person has the knowledge of and certainty in the shahadah, this must be followed by acceptance, with the tongue and heart, of whatever that shahadah implies. Whoever refuses to accept the shahadah and its implications, even if he knows that it is true and certain about its truth, is a disbeliever. This refusal to accept is sometimes due to pride, envy or other reasons. In any case, the shahadah is not a true shahadah without its unconditional acceptance.
The scholars all talk about this condition as a general condition in the way that I have just stated. However, there is also a more detailed aspect that we must all be aware of. The believer accepts whatever the implications of the shahadah are. This also means that he believes in whatever is stated in the Quran or stated by the Prophet (peace be upon him), without any right to choose what he wants to believe and what he wants to reject. Allah says in the Quran, "Do you believe in part of the book and reject part of it? And what is the reward of those who do so save ignominy in the life of the world, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be consigned to the most grievous doom" (Qur'an, al-Baqara 85).
This is one aspect that the Muslims must be aware of. Although it is not the same as the complete refusal to accept the truth, by rejecting part of the truth that has come from Allah, one also negates his testimony of faith.
Unfortunately, many Muslims are doing this nowadays in various ways. Although not all of these forms may necessarily be considered apostasy, they are still very dangerous. For example, if they do not like what is stated in a verse in the Quran, they simply reinterpret the verse according to their liking. If they do not like what is stated in a hadith, they simply state that the hadith must not be authentic although they are not scholars in that area. This kind of behavior is the antithesis of the behavior of the true Muslims. Whatever comes from Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him), the true Muslim believes in as the truth. This goes hand in hand with their testimony of faith.

The fourth condition of shahadah is submission and compliance (or al-inqiyad).
This implies the actual physical enactment with our deeds of our shahadah. In fact, this is one of the main meanings of the word Islam itself, "the submission to the will and commands of Allah. " This is what Allah commands in the Quran, "Turn unto Him repentant, and surrender unto Him" (Qur'an, al-Zumar 54).
Allah has praised those who submit to His command by their actions. Allah says, "Who is better in religion than he who surrenders his purpose to Allah while doing good" (Qur'an, al-Nisa 125).
Actually, Allah has clearly made it a condition of faith that one submits to the command of Allah and His messenger. Allah says, "But nay, by your Lord, they will not truly believe until they make you [the Messenger of Allah] judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of which you decide, and submit with full submission" (Qur'an, al-Nisa 65)
Unfortunately, there are many claim that there is no relationship between faith and deeds. You can even hear one Muslim saying about another, "That is the best Muslim I have ever met." Yet the other person performs scarcely any of the deeds of Islam whatsoever. This incorrect understanding of faith has spread throughout the Muslim world.
Indeed, our shahadah or testimony of faith must be implemented in our hearts, tongues and actions. In our hearts, we must have love for Allah, fear Allah and hope in Him. With our tongues we must testify to the shahadah. And with our actions, we must implement what the testimony of faith requires from us. Anyone who claims to be a Muslim and yet does no deeds, either does not understand Islam whatsoever or is bearing testimony against himself that his testimony of faith is not a true and correct testimony of faith.
This does not mean that the true believer never commits a sin. Indeed, true believers do commit sins. But as long as they recognize that what they did is not correct and it is inconsistent with their obligation of submitting to Allah, then they [have not destroyed] their testimony or shahadah. But, do not forget, they are still sinners.
And what is the minimum of submission that is required from a person beyond which there can be no claim to faith? For those scholars who say that the abandonment of prayers is infidelity, it is the five daily prayers. Whoever does not perform, at least, the five daily prayers has gone beyond the limit that is acceptable for lack fo deeds

 

[AbuQuteiba]

A right to live, as opposed to being killed or thrown off a tall building etc..........
It is not up to us to tell people how to live. You can't punish homosexuality when there is no mention of it (a punishment) in the Noble Quran. As heterosexuals, Brother Champion, it is easy for us to say this and that; but have you ever thought about how someone who is gay must feel. We can be so cruel (including me). The point of this thread is to make it clear that gays should not be punished, period.
We have no right to humiliate others; leave them alone!

I've said before. If homosexuality is considered to be a disorder, and homosexual's do not act upon their sexual desires, then yes, they do have the right to live, without a doubt. The punishment in Islam is not for being homosexual, (as said by Jamaesi earlier, I can't be created, she left out with a disorder, then be punished for it) it's for the sexual acts that occur between people of the same sex, homosexual or not. The punishment in Islam for having sexual intercourse with another of the same sex is death. Just as the punishment of a married man that commits adultery is death, by stoning.

Subhan Allah. We keep wasting our time replying to the same statement you keep making. Yes, it may not be in the Qur'an, but it's in the Sunna. As stoning is in the sunna, and the hijab. You keep saying that you are a sunni, and that you don't reject the sunna, but your posts say otherwise. You are rejecting the sunna when rejecting these very clear punishments found in the sunna.

You say, "its not up to us to tell people how to live" and "to leave people alone!", yet thats exactly what you did in the beginning of this thread. Concerning homosexual's of course. You mentioned them not being allowed to have sexual intrcourse, not being able to lead a country, and you mentioned something else. It's all there (post#1 or #2). [44] Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (to practise it) yourselves. And yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?[2.44]

I've mentioned in my previous posts, that i cannot imagine what a (muslim) homosexual, that acknowledge's he/she has a disorder, must feel like. I feel very sorry for them, and pray that Allah give's them the patience to withstand this balaa' (test). For this life, is only a test for the next.

I will research this in more detail insha'Allah. Peace.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Changing your natural hair colour so that instead of growing blonde hair you grw brown is impoosible. That is what I am getting at.



When have I been dodging it?

And I've only brought up lust vs love once. I am sure you know the difference between the two. I find females attractive, yes, and to do that would be lusting after them. I've also been in love with girls- you know, the wanting to be with them,be married, have kids, grow old together.


And according to modern science, that is.



This isn't just in this thread I've been called things.



Because that is how I write it. I have a lot of personal reasons for this that are out of the scope of this thread- I'd be happy to discuss this over IM or PM.



Hmm! I was very unaware love is a horrible transgression against G-d.

Its certainly impossible. But changing your hair color to please your creator is'nt. Thats what i'm getting at .

You're still dodging it by not answering. C'mon Jamaesi. Yes, i do understand the difference. But if both lust and love lead to the forbidden, then what real difference is there? Having sexual intercourse with the same sex is forbidden in Islam. Even Laila accept's this fact (yet rejects so many other one's for some reason). Uhhh having kids?

Modern science has still not yet confirmed anything. Modern science has all in all given up further research to finding a cure for homosexuality for the many reasons both you and I gave earlier.

Again, i'm sorry for the way you are being treated. Yet Jamaesi, "truth stands out far from error" [2.256]. Oh, i'de love to discuss this over pm's.

Sadly, you seem to be unaware of many things Jamaesi.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

ok. Laila. Not only are you disregarding the sunna, in the posts between you and Mujahid, you're lowering of its worth. And thats something I, and any true muslim, will not accept. The prophet (SAWS) said himself that he has been given the Qur'an, and something like it with (meaning the sunna). And he has also said, SAWS, that in the end of times, people will disregard the sunna with the argument that they only stick to the Qur'an (i'll get the exact hadeeth's soon insha'Allah).

By openly saying you will not accept what the Prophet ordered Muslims to do, you are denying Muhammed (SAWS). And it calls for a new thread concerning the sunna.

 

[Sahar]

I won't make a vital point here but

Oh....I've just remembered, as a teenager going to Egypt with my mother and father, and I asked them "why do the Christians wear the jilbab and a scarf when they are not Muslims?", my father said "don't be silly, it's Egyptian culture!"

Who are those christians ur talking abt?!!
If u meant nuns i would agree. Egyptian christians try their best to be distinguished from muslims, maybe by their names, by a cross tattooed on the inside of the right wrist and one fundamental point is the hijab; the head scarf is in most cases a mark of distinction between muslim women and christian women. In normal cases if u saw unveiled woman, autmoatically u would think she is christian.

 

[Laila]

You say, "its not up to us to tell people how to live" and "to leave people alone!", yet thats exactly what you did in the beginning of this thread. Concerning homosexual's of course. You mentioned them not being allowed to have sexual intrcourse, not being able to lead a country, and you mentioned something else. It's all there (post#1 or #2).

Yes. you're right, I'm just as guilty. My aim was not telling people how to live but to try to explain the choices that a practising homosexual may have to make as a Muslim. What I wanted to get across in this thread is killing a practising homosexual or someone who has committed adultery does not come from Islam. The punishment for adultery is clear in the Quran (and it is not death). As for practising homosexuals (regarding any form of punishment) the Quran keeps silent (unless I find something else whilst studying the Quran). I'm not here to catch anyone out but, so that we (Muslims brothers and sisters on RF) help each other find the appropriate verses from the Quran

I never said 'leader of a country' I said Islamic leader for example, a cleric of a mosque. I'm trying to look at it from a religious perspective, and I do apologise (sincerely) if I've hurt anyones feelings. From my understanding (up to now), I have to maintain (like you) that practising homosexuality is not permissable in Islam. I am against torture and inhumane treatment.

What happens Brother Champion is that when you try and justify that ALL sunna needs to be followed, people responding to this thread are not quoting from the Quran. I haven't found in the Quran where it says 'follow the Hadith and Sunna of the messenger'. If this was the case I would without reservation follow ALL the sunna.
The words Hadith and Sunna are not associated with the Prophet. They are only associated with Allah.
Now, we follow the Sunna when it is authenticated so who decides who authenticates? It is certainly not the Prophet (pbuh) authenticating the Hadith and neither is Allah authenticating the Hadith. Does that mean don't follow any Hadith? it certainly does not. The Quran sets the upper and lower parameters for an 'ideal society'. If we are following Hadith and live in between the parameters there is nothing wrong with this. Some of the Hadith that I've read are good, so if I'm not transgressing the teachings in the Quran - there is nothing wrong. However if following a Hadith means transgressing the parameters set by Allah, I will never agree to follow it.

 

[Laila]

I won't make a vital point here but
Who are those christians ur talking abt?!!
If u meant nuns i would agree. Egyptian christians try their best to be distinguished from muslims, maybe by their names, by a cross tattooed on the inside of the right wrist and one fundamental point is the hijab; the head scarf is in most cases a mark of distinction between muslim women and christian women. In normal cases if u saw unveiled woman, autmoatically u would think she is christian.

well. not4me maybe my father, who is Egyptian, doesn't know much about Egypt!
I was talking about the Coptic Christians, we were touring the Misr al-Qadima area. It was just suprising to me as a child, (13 year old) first trip to Egypt.

In normal cases would I think an unveiled woman was a Christian or other? Nah, I think I've done a bit of growing up.

 

[Laila]

By openly saying you will not accept what the Prophet ordered Muslims to do, you are denying Muhammed (SAWS). And it calls for a new thread concerning the sunna.

I am denying Muhammad(pbuh)?
What a silly thing to say, since I have firm believe in the Quran and I am a practising Muslim; I am following the Prophet by following his delivery of the message of Allah.

 

[Laila]

Allah says in the Quran, "Do you believe in part of the book and reject part of it? And what is the reward of those who do so save ignominy in the life of the world, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be consigned to the most grievous doom" (Qur'an, al-Baqara 85).

I am not ignoring any part of the Quran.

Unfortunately, many Muslims are doing this nowadays in various ways. Although not all of these forms may necessarily be considered apostasy, they are still very dangerous. For example, if they do not like what is stated in a verse in the Quran, they simply reinterpret the verse according to their liking. If they do not like what is stated in a hadith, they simply state that the hadith must not be authentic although they are not scholars in that area. This kind of behavior is the antithesis of the behavior of the true Muslims. Whatever comes from Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him), the true Muslim believes in as the truth. This goes hand in hand with their testimony of faith.

It is not about like or dislike. It is about ijtihad - Allah commands his faithful to understand the message. The interpretations by later scholars are not there to be never unchanged. They help modern scholars to look again at the verses and reinterpret them. This is essential for progression. Societies change (over time) and the Quran, a book for all times and places, allows for this.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Yes. you're right, I'm just as guilty. My aim was not telling people how to live but to try to explain the choices that a practising homosexual may have to make as a Muslim. What I wanted to get across in this thread is killing a practising homosexual or someone who has committed adultery does not come from Islam. The punishment for adultery is clear in the Quran (and it is not death). As for practising homosexuals (regarding any form of punishment) the Quran keeps silent (unless I find something else whilst studying the Quran). I'm not here to catch anyone out but, so that we (Muslims brothers and sisters on RF) help each other find the appropriate verses from the Quran

I never said 'leader of a country' I said Islamic leader for example, a cleric of a mosque. I'm trying to look at it from a religious perspective, and I do apologise (sincerely) if I've hurt anyones feelings. From my understanding (up to now), I have to maintain (like you) that practising homosexuality is not permissable in Islam. I am against torture and inhumane treatment.

What happens Brother Champion is that when you try and justify that ALL sunna needs to be followed, people responding to this thread are not quoting from the Quran. I haven't found in the Quran where it says 'follow the Hadith and Sunna of the messenger'. If this was the case I would without reservation follow ALL the sunna.
The words Hadith and Sunna are not associated with the Prophet. They are only associated with Allah.
Now, we follow the Sunna when it is authenticated so who decides who authenticates? It is certainly not the Prophet (pbuh) authenticating the Hadith and neither is Allah authenticating the Hadith. Does that mean don't follow any Hadith? it certainly does not. The Quran sets the upper and lower parameters for an 'ideal society'. If we are following Hadith and live in between the parameters there is nothing wrong with this. Some of the Hadith that I've read are good, so if I'm not transgressing the teachings in the Quran - there is nothing wrong. However if following a Hadith means transgressing the parameters set by Allah, I will never agree to follow it.

I really don't feel like replying to this again. It's mostly drivel anyhow. The Qur'an is the Qur'an. Complete in every way, and in every form. Yet we are not Qur'anees. We are Muslims. Islam is not complete with only the Qur'an. Islam is complete with the Qur'an and sunna. That's the Islam Muhammed (SAWS) preached. It's the way the companions, and the believer's after them practiced it. And its the only true way to practice Islam. Allah (SWT) said in the Qur'an: This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. [5.3] He said (SWT), i have completed your religion and chosen Islam for you. This verse shows you that the Qur'an, which is complete in its own way, does not complete Islam.

Allah (SWT) said: [31] Say: "If ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."[3.31] Allah (SWT) ordered Muhammed to say if you love Allah, follow me. Follow me, as in follow my teachings, my SUNNA (way). The Imam Ibn Katheer said in his tafseer: "This aya came down for all the people who said that we love Allah, but choose not to follow the way of Muhammed. For they are liars. They are liar's until they choose to follow the Sharee'a of Muhammed."

This is the way of the believer's before us. This is the way of the Muslimeen of the time of the Prophet (SAWS). These are the people Allah (SWT) ordered us to follow.[115] If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that of the believer's, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell, what an evil refuge!

This Laila, is Islam.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

what is your understanding of this brother? Could you quote the verses please.

Why it is just another verse you will interpret according to your very limited understanding of the Quran.

Well, I wouldn't say limited, I do read the tafsirs, but isn't it time we progressed from 7th century Arabia?

WHAT ARE YOU SAYING YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS BETTER THAN THAT OF THE COMPANIONS. THIS IS WHAT THE TAFSIR IS AN EXPLANATION OF THE QURAN FROM THE WORDS OF THE COMPANIONS. THE PROPHET PBUH SAT MANY OF HIS COMPANIONS, ABDULLAH IBN MASAUD, MUJAHID, ALI, AND ZAID IBN THABIT AND EXPLAINED TO EACH OF THEM THE MEANING OF EVERY VERSE IN THE QURAN PLUS THEY WITNESSED THE REVELATION. I GUESS YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THEY ARE AND YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT THE QURAN AND SUNNAH THAN THEY DO. STOP FOOLING YOURSELF.

The tafsir (interpretation) is not set in stone. I think the problem lies with separating culture and religion. I'm not a lone woman, sitting at home re-interpreting, I have links with a forward thinking group at Oxford (with Islamic scholars) - I do discuss my ideas with other people.

Blah Blah Blah, those guys at Oxford are in no way more knowledgable about our religion than the companions.

Thank for the link, I've read through it.
At no point have you quoted from the Quran that is specifically says follow the Hadith and Sunna of the messenger. It says obey Allah and obey the messenger. Since the messenger is delivering the message of Allah, it is quite clear that the meaning of this is to obey the message (the Quran), since the Prophet (pbuh) is not physically with us.

And you have not posted where in the Quran it tell you exactly how to pray. And since you like to interpret the Quran according to your very very limited understanding perhaps you should write your own tafsir explaining our religion since the companions did such a horrible job. and take it to Mecca and Madinah and discuss it with our scholars and get their opinion.

You also quoted another verse which is:
One important phrase of this verse is, "he teaches them the Book and the Hikmah." What, in addition to the Book or the Quran, was also revealed to the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh)? Allah says, "Allah has revealed to you the Book and the Hikmah and taught you what you knew not (before): and great is the Grace of Allah unto you" (al-Nissa 113). Allah also says, Solemnly recall Allah's favors on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and the Hikmah for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well-acquainted with all things" (al-Baqarah 231)

This verse is not specifically adressing the Prophet (pbuh).
The book is the revelation. The Hikmah is wisdom, God has given us the gift of a spirit.
The Hikmah is not the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh).

And you claim to read the tafsir. Here you go with your own personal interpretation again. Hogwash.

Brother Mujahid, in no way do I say that I am right and everybody else is wrong, however people have a God given right to reinterpret the Noble Quran - to deny this right to them is not just.

Yes you are saying it. and Yes people do have a right, people have free will. BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM CORRECT. Some interpret verses in Surah Baqarah about the slaughtering of the cow to mean A'ishah I guess according to your reasonings they are right. I guess we should go kill jews whereever we find them like an ayah says without knowing the reason behind the revelation or the wisdom we get from it in the sunnah. I guess killing yourself in jihad is correct according to people personal and dangerous interpretations of the Quran but as you said people can do what they want and according to you it is OK and not only OK but essential. Why follow people Allah said in the Quran He is pleased with. Find the ayat yourself since you are such an expert on Quranic interpretation. I assume you are a hafiz then. Do what you want interpret it how you like But remember you will be questioned on why you chose to ignore the path of the righteous and following your own desires.

I hope to improve my Islamic knowledge everyday, to search for the 'true Islam'.

You have it at your fingertips, you just choose to reject it as many others do. why because of their lack of knowlegde I hope you improve your islamic knowledge because what you have shown me and others on this forum is the problem with our ummah today.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I really don't feel like replying to this again. It's mostly drivel anyhow. The Qur'an is the Qur'an. Complete in every way, and in every form. Yet we are not Qur'anees. We are Muslims. Islam is not complete with only the Qur'an. Islam is complete with the Qur'an and sunna. That's the Islam Muhammed (SAWS) preached. It's the way the companions, and the believer's after them practiced it. And its the only true way to practice Islam. Allah (SWT) said in the Qur'an: This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. [5.3] He said (SWT), i have completed your religion and chosen Islam for you. This verse shows you that the Qur'an, which is complete in its own way, does not complete Islam.

Allah (SWT) said: [31] Say: "If ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."[3.31] Allah (SWT) ordered Muhammed to say if you love Allah, follow me. Follow me, as in follow my teachings, my SUNNA (way). The Imam Ibn Katheer said in his tafseer: "This aya came down for all the people who said that we love Allah, but choose not to follow the way of Muhammed. For they are liars. They are liar's until they choose to follow the Sharee'a of Muhammed."

This is the way of the believer's before us. This is the way of the Muslimeen of the time of the Prophet (SAWS). These are the people Allah (SWT) ordered us to follow.[115] If anyone contends with the Messenger even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that of the believer's, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen, and land him in Hell, what an evil refuge!

This Laila, is Islam.

Its like beating a dead horse brother.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I am not ignoring any part of the Quran.

Yes you are.

It is not about like or dislike. It is about ijtihad - Allah commands his faithful to understand the message. The interpretations by later scholars are not there to be never unchanged. They help modern scholars to look again at the verses and reinterpret them. This is essential for progression. Societies change (over time) and the Quran, a book for all times and places, allows for this.

Right because the scholars of the past i.e. the companions, the tabi'en, and the tabi tabi'en had it all wrong I guess. Just like in Christianity. They do not need the testimony of the disciples those who walked with Jesus (pbuh) they use the testimony of people who never met him in their life, and reject the statements of the disciples. Maybe we should just update the whole Quran then make it more modern like the Christians. ASTAGFULLA, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.

 

[Ishmaïl]

I think stoning is very cruel, I could never throw a rock at someone.

 

[Laila]

I really don't feel like replying to this again. It's mostly drivel anyhow. The Qur'an is the Qur'an. Complete in every way, and in every form.

I agree (about the Quran being complete). Thank you for your patience Brother.

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. [5.3] He said (SWT), i have completed your religion and chosen Islam for you. This verse shows you that the Qur'an, which is complete in its own way, does not complete Islam.

Have you not contradicted yourself?

Allah (SWT) said: [31] Say: "If ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."[3.31] Allah (SWT) ordered Muhammed to say if you love Allah, follow me. Follow me, as in follow my teachings, my SUNNA (way). The Imam Ibn Katheer said in his tafseer: "This aya came down for all the people who said that we love Allah, but choose not to follow the way of Muhammed. For they are liars. They are liar's until they choose to follow the Sharee'a of Muhammed."

Gosh, that is a bit harsh. The verse says follow me, not follow my Hadith or follow my Sunna.

This Laila, is Islam.

Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers. (Surah 6, Verse 114)

The book is clear no Verse is abrogated, or can be abrogated.

These are the communications of Allah which We recite to you with truth; then in what announcement would they believe after Allah and His communications? (Surah 45, verse 6)

 

[Laila]

Brother Mujahid, tch tch.........honestly!

Hikmah = Wisdom

 

[Laila]

Yes you are.
Maybe we should just update the whole Quran then make it more modern like the Christians. ASTAGFULLA, YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.

Modernity comes from within and by Islam. I am not interested in a 'model' of Western modernity.

The problem with the 'Muslim World' (I apologise for stereotyping) is that on the whole it's a little backwards.

 

[Ishmaïl]

I dont think its backwards.