Muslim: 'An Islamic perspective'

[TashaN]

On the contrary, I haven't forsaken my religion. My life experiences have made me a better Muslim with immense love for God.

Now one said you forsaked your religion nor i implied that in my post but it's just an example for those who have been affected by the society.

These verses are not applicable to an average (nobody) woman, like me. I am nothing compared to what they were. This is very clear in verse 32. To say that this verse applies to all women, in all times and societies is an error.

Well, not according to the scholars, unless you think you are not part of that verse and you can make a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance.

It's especially for the mothers of believrs and the muslim women in general as well.

The term jahiliyyah (in this instance in verse 33) denotes the period of a people's - or civilisation's - moral ignorance between the obliteration of one prophetic teaching and the emergence ofanother; and, more specifically, the period of Arabian paganism before the advent of Muhammad (bpuh).

You didn't answer my question yet.

I want you to bring one single proof that women's hijab was a culture for Arabs.

Also please read post # 55.

 

[Laila]

Now one said you forsaked your religion nor i implied that in my post but it's just an example for those who have been affected by the society.



Well, not according to the scholars, unless you think you are not part of that verse and you can make a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance.

It's especially for the mothers of believrs and the muslim women in general as well.



You didn't answer my question yet.

I want you to bring one single proof that women's hijab was a culture for Arabs.

Also please read post # 55.

Salam Brother TT,
You may need to refer back to the 'to cover the head or not' thread.
Any other questions irrelevant to this discussion which was on punishment?
Oh, and in answer to your other questions, Brother TT I am a Sunni Muslim, this should answer. Oh, and yes I do discuss my thoughts within the Sufi circle that I attend.

Yes, the verses you quoted as for the wives of the Prophet, this is clear. Secondly, how should the women (and men)then conduct themselves, again this is clear in the Noble Quran.

[24.30] Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.
[24.31] And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their khumar over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.
These verses are discusssed (the bits that apply to the women) here;
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40610

So what is the Islamic dress code? again the Noble Quran gives us clear instructions-
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40610&page=8
see post 79, in above thread.

The end (for now) - I wish I had more time to answer questions but I need to give priority elsewhere; until next time brother TT, may Allah guide us all. Ameen.

 

[jamaesi]

Uhh, i'm not the one that threatened you with hell, for i do not have that power. Allah does, (plus never in my previous posts have i said to a person "you're going to hell". And the statement made by my brother Mujahid, that you do not know/ fear hell, was incinuating that you do not seem to be afraid of hell. You said "if im going to hell for being who i am, then so be it"). Correct as of research done, the people of Lut may not have been homosexual, if and only if we call homosexuality a disorder (i've been saying disease, and that term is incorrect). Ok. Please explain what you mean by literally in your last sentence (in that paragraph).

I never said you were the one threatening me, but I am being treated quite poorly here.

Umm, no you would'nt be able to do that to your professors. But neither would any other person that has a disorder that does not effect his well being.

No, because it isn't a disorder.

The article contradicts itself. By saying that homosexuality is ANOTHER way society chooses to express human love and sexuality, its indirectly calling homosexuality a choice. Then it says, that it is'nt a matter of individual choice, in other words its natural. So the response to each statement would be, if you agree to the first statement, that homosexuality is another form of human love and sexuality, then it has been forbiden by Allah (SWT), for "unkown" reasons. And if you agree to the second statement, that it is not a matter of individual choice, then we have a right to call it a disorder

No, it doesn't. They call it a choice NO WHERE. Saying that homosexuality is another way of expressing human love and sexuality is like saying blonde is another way hair expresses its colour because most people in the world naturally have darker hair- and you don't choose your natural hair colour, do you?

You're playing with semantics- which pretty much tells me you haven't much to stand on.

As for that last statement, well, its incorrect whether you're gay or not. To say "i know Allah loves me", is just like saying "i know Allah will not send me to hell, or will send me to heaven". A person's fate is in Allah's hands. God's love for certain people is part of the knowledge of the unseen. Even the Prophet (SAWS), who's sins have been forgiven, when asked by his wife to be gentle with himself (because the Prophet (SAWS) would pray until his feet became swollen), he said (SAWS) should i not be a thankful slave?

What I am saying is I know that G-d does not hate me because I am gay- no matter how many times I am told here I am disgusting and going to hell and no better than an animal.

[54] (We also sent) Lut (as a Messenger): behold, he said to his people, "Do ye do what is shameful though ye see (its iniquity)?

[55] "Would ye really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, ye are a people (grossly) ignorant!"

When men have lust toward other men but not women so that's inhopsitality?

I think the verses are clear as the sun.

You know, perhaps you need to look at new research done by UNBIASED sources. And hey, I'm not the only little infidel here who thinks that it might not have been homosexuality, champion agreed, also.

This is why I am not even going to say anything about your "homosexuality gene" article- it's all bunk. Bad source, even worse authors (one of them was fired for sexual misconduct with young boys, no wonder he has so much hate for homosexuals, he's a paedophile), and even worse, all the information and facts in it are wrong,

 

[Laila]

A final but important note, I am appalled at the way Sister Jamaesi has been treated by some brothers and sisters. God is for everyone.

 

[TashaN]

Salam Brother TT,
You may need to refer back to the 'to cover the head or not' thread.

You started talking about hijab so i answered you.

Oh, and in answer to your other questions, Brother TT I am a Sunni Muslim, this should answer. Oh, and yes I do discuss my thoughts within the Sufi circle that I attend.

I guess you mixed up my posts with others, i never asked whether you are Sunni, Shi'ie, Sufi or whatever because that doesn't concern be because all of us are Muslims.

The end (for now) - I wish I had more time to answer questions but I need to give priority elsewhere; until next time brother TT, may Allah guide us all. Ameen.

I knew you wouldn't answer my question. It's ok.

My question again to you maybe one day you will be able to answer it whether here or in the other thread you talked about the head covering at.

I want you to bring one single proof that women's hijab was a culture for Arabs.

Regarding the question about how many times God told us to pray in the Quran, if you spent your whole life looking for it in the Quran you won't be able to find it.

I just wanted to prove to you that Islam is not Quran alone.

That's all.


Peace and blessing,

TT

 

[TashaN]

You know, perhaps you need to look at new research done by UNBIASED sources.

Maesi !!!

Did i ever used any reasearch or source in here?

I just posted verses from the Quran and you can use other translations for the Quran if you want.

And hey, I'm not the only little infidel here who thinks that it might not have been homosexuality, champion agreed, also.

Excuse me? who said that you are an infidel?

This is why I am not even going to say anything about your "homosexuality gene" article- it's all bunk. Bad source, even worse authors (one of them was fired for sexual misconduct with young boys, no wonder he has so much hate for homosexuals, he's a paedophile), and even worse, all the information and facts in it are wrong,

It's ok, no problem. I just hope that one day you will be able to read the verses which i posted with an open mind.

 

[jamaesi]

Did i ever used any reasearch or source in here?

Do you not call that "article" you posted "research"?

Excuse me? who said that you are an infidel?

It's called sarcasm. And you're right, I haven't been called a infidel yet- I've just been called an animal and disgusting and a kaffir and not a real Muslim.

It's ok, no problem. I just hope that one day you will be able to read the verses which i posted with an open mind.

I have read them with an open mind (and with a FAR more open mind then you read anything on homosexuality judging by the trash posing as "science" you post about it).

I've also read the historical research on it in Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and secular views, and research says that the "sin of Sodom" might not have been homosexuality (and probably isn't!). Inhopsitality being the reason for their destruction has been part of Jewish interpretation of it for centuries.

 

[TashaN]

Do you not call that "article" you posted "research"?

I thought you were reffering to the verses.

It's called sarcasm. And you're right, I haven't been called a infidel yet- I've just been called an animal and disgusting and a kaffir and not a real Muslim.

I'll never say such a thing about you or about any other human being because i'm not the one who judge people but Allah alone.

If i have said anything so it's just about the issue at hand but nothing else.

I have read them with an open mind (and with a FAR more open mind then you read anything on homosexuality judging by the trash posing as "science" you post about it).

Is it a trash just because you didn't agree with it?

I've also read the historical research on it in Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and secular views, and research says that the "sin of Sodom" might not have been homosexuality (and probably isn't!). Inhopsitality being the reason for their destruction has been part of Jewish interpretation of it for centuries.

Well that's not the Islamic interpretation unless you have some resources for that from an islamic point of view and i would love to read about it.

 

[jamaesi]

Is it a trash just because you didn't agree with it?

It's trash because it is trash. Dig up something from an unbiased source with unbiased authours. If I pulled something up from homosexualsareawesome.com or whatever I would hope you would call that a bad source.

Well that's not the Islamic interpretation unless you have some resources for that from an islamic point of view and i would love to read about it.

As the story is passed down through religions and time it gets changed a bit. In the original version of it (at least I know the furthest it goes back is to Judaism, but who knows, it could be from a religion older than that!), it is most likely inhospitality, not homosexuality. Of course liberal Muslims and groups such as the Al-Fatiha Foundation are of the position that homosexuality is natural and the verses are obsolete in this day and age and/or that the Qur'an does speak out against homosexual lust but says nothing about homosexual love.


We can debate this story all day but this still does not change the fact homosexuality is not a choice.
Why would a "merciful God" punish someone for how they were made? It is like sending someone to hell for having green eyes or being a Chinese.

 

[TashaN]

It's trash because it is trash. Dig up something from an unbiased source with unbiased authours. If I pulled something up from homosexualsareawesome.com or whatever I would hope you would call that a bad source.

I don't know why you think that i knew it was biased source, i just saw in it somthing different, that's all. You are implying that i knew it was a biased source (if it's).

Anyway, i don't care for these sources but i just wanted to share somthing interesting which refute what is being accepted as facts in other sites.

What i care about as somthing i depend in is the teaching of Islam.

the Qur'an does speak out against homosexual lust but says nothing about homosexual love.

OK, when the Quran speak about homosexuals lust for instance, does that mean it's ok to have sex with someone of the same sex or not?

What is the point in mentioning lust of homosexuals and punishing them for doing so in your opinion?

We can debate this story all day but this still does not change the fact homosexuality is not a choice.

Assume that we said homosexuality is not a choice so do you think it's ok to have a sexual relationship with a partner from the same sex when you know that even fornication which is a sexual relationship amongest the hetrosexuals is not allowed in Islam without marriage?

Why would a "merciful God" punish someone for how they were made? It is like sending someone to hell for having green eyes or being a Chinese.

You will know when you answer my question above.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

I never said you were the one threatening me, but I am being treated quite poorly here.

I'm sorry you feel you are being teated poorly.

No, because it isn't a disorder.

Of course it's not. According to you that is.

No, it doesn't. They call it a choice NO WHERE. Saying that homosexuality is another way of expressing human love and sexuality is like saying blonde is another way hair expresses its colour because most people in the world naturally have darker hair- and you don't choose your natural hair colour, do you?

You're playing with semantics- which pretty much tells me you haven't much to stand on.

I've noticed in most of your posts you like to compare things, so i'll run along with your methods. Ok. Lets say that being blonde is forbidden is Islam. Then what? Do you change your hair color because Allah ordered you to? Or do you defend it by saying things like, this is how Allah created me, why would he create me in a certain way, then punish me, etc? I know that changing one's hair color, is nothing like changing one's sex (disorder). But its the example you gave.

Also. I've noticed you keep dodging the part about how homosexuals are suppost to live their lives. I've asked you before if you agree with Laila's post? It seems the only right Laila seems to think homosexuals have, is the right to live. Do you agree? You keep saying homosexual lust, in Islam, is not the same as homosexual love. Please explain.

What I am saying is I know that G-d does not hate me because I am gay- no matter how many times I am told here I am disgusting and going to hell and no better than an animal.

I've read through this entire thread jamaesi. And i have not come across one person telling you that you are disgusting, going to hell, or that you're no better than an animal. If you're generalizing, because some posters have called homosexuality disgusting, well, that's his/ her right.

Why do you keep writing G-d?

I'm not the only little infidel here who thinks that it might not have been homosexuality, champion agreed, also.

You've done this more than once. You take matters that are very serious, lightly. Please, try to be more cautious when it comes to matters of religion and faith (i know you said that its sarcasm, but i dont think that this is the time or place).

Plus. I agreed that it might not be homosexuality on the basis that homosexuality is a disorder. If you consider homosexuality to be natural, then what the people of Lut were doing, if they were homosexuals, was totally natural. And therefore should've been accepted by Allah (SWT).

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Salam Brother Mujahid,

I am a Sunni Muslim but if something goes against the 'word of Allah' I have to disregard it.

How when you disregard the Sunnah of the Messenger. Give me the evidence of what disregards the Quran from any of mine, or Champion, or The Truth's statement. You say Hijab is not necessary which contradicts Quran. You say capital punishment is which is clearly spelled out in the Sunnah you claim to follow yet you reject it.

What if a verse has been abrogated and do you know what verses have. You need to study your religion and stop making false claims about how you are Sunni muslim yet you disregard the sunnah I gave you the evidence from my post on the Authority and Importance of the sunnah. YOu have not answered any of my questions on how if you only follow Quran that you pray. And you have given me no evidence of any statement we have made regarding the sunnah that is in contradiction to the Quran.

Why you have not given any evidence is because you have none. If you do now would be the time to bring it to the forefront.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

A final but important note, I am appalled at the way Sister Jamaesi has been treated by some brothers and sisters. God is for everyone.

does not excuse the fact that she is committing a horrible sin and will go to hellfire unless she repents. And in Islam and according to the Sunnah of Allah and the Prophet she would be killed for exposing the sin. If she would have kept it to herself it would have been better in the eyes of Allah.

God is for everyone but God is just and to commit and injustice against Allah requires Him the Creator to hand out His punishment.

 

[Laila]

I've noticed you keep dodging the part about how homosexuals are suppost to live their lives. I've asked you before if you agree with Laila's post? It seems the only right Laila seems to think homosexuals have, is the right to live.

A right to live, as opposed to being killed or thrown off a tall building etc..........
It is not up to us to tell people how to live. You can't punish homosexuality when there is no mention of it (a punishment) in the Noble Quran. As heterosexuals, Brother Champion, it is easy for us to say this and that; but have you ever thought about how someone who is gay must feel. We can be so cruel (including me). The point of this thread is to make it clear that gays should not be punished, period.
We have no right to humiliate others; leave them alone!

 

[Laila]

How when you disregard the Sunnah of the Messenger. Give me the evidence of what disregards the Quran from any of mine, or Champion, or The Truth's statement.

When did I say you disregard the Quran is there a hidden meaning in your message?

You say Hijab is not necessary which contradicts Quran.

Traditional Arabic dress is not necessary. Covering the hair is not necessary. These statements do not contradict the Quran.

You say capital punishment is which is clearly spelled out in the Sunnah you claim to follow yet you reject it.

The upper limits are set by God in the Quran the word of Allah. If the Sunna of the Prophet was the same I would have no problem with this. However, since the Sunna states that stoning is a punishment I can't accept this as coming from God. The Sunna is not the literal word of Allah.
Who wrote the Sunna? Who authenticated it? why the concern about what is authentic or not? the Noble Quran is 100% authentic, the divine writ.
As a Sunni Muslim I accept from the Hadith that which does not contradict the Quran. The verses from God cannot (never) be abrogated by any external source; regardless of where it is from. The Quran is a complete way of life. I will never follow a Hadith when it talks about punishments not found in the Quran.

YOu have not answered any of my questions on how if you only follow Quran that you pray. And you have given me no evidence of any statement we have made regarding the sunnah that is in contradiction to the Quran.

When did I ever say I 'only' follow the Quran. However, since you've mentioned it, I'll find the verses regarding (prayer) in the Quran. This will be my next thread, but you may have to give my a few months!

Why you have not given any evidence is because you have none. If you do now would be the time to bring it to the forefront.

Evidence for what? hmm...it is dangerous to underestimate someone.

 

[Laila]

does not excuse the fact that she is committing a horrible sin and will go to hellfire unless she repents. And in Islam and according to the Sunnah of Allah and the Prophet she would be killed for exposing the sin. If she would have kept it to herself it would have been better in the eyes of Allah.

God is for everyone but God is just and to commit and injustice against Allah requires Him the Creator to hand out His punishment.

Maybe you have committed a horrible sin in what you have just said. According to the Sunna of Allah, she would be killed?

Provide the evidence from the Quran.

 

[Laila]

You started talking about hijab so i answered you.

Did I start talking about hijab in this thread? Maybe, I'm mistaken but I don't think I did. When?

I guess you mixed up my posts with others, i never asked whether you are Sunni, Shi'ie, Sufi or whatever because that doesn't concern be because all of us are Muslims.

You brought the topic up to make a point of saying we pray (5 times) and this information comes from the Hadith. So.......just because I think one or some Hadith are authentic enough doesn't mean I think they all are.
Where there is a blatant 'inconsistency' between the Hadith and the Quran; I reject the Hadith and I do not apologise for this.

I want you to bring one single proof that women's hijab was a culture for Arabs.

What I can prove is it is definately not compulsory Islamic dress, using the 'word of Allah'.
Oh....I've just remembered, as a teenager going to Egypt with my mother and father, and I asked them "why do the Christians wear the jilbab and a scarf when they are not Muslims?", my father said "don't be silly, it's Egyptian culture!"

TT I'm not interested in proving that it is cultural or not - I've read the history, big shame (unlucky) I didn't make a note of all the references. What I have proven is that it is not compulsory.

References to follow if need be but you may have to give it time, like next year!

Regarding the question about how many times God told us to pray in the Quran, if you spent your whole life looking for it in the Quran you won't be able to find it.

OK.

 

[jamaesi]

I've noticed in most of your posts you like to compare things, so i'll run along with your methods. Ok. Lets say that being blonde is forbidden is Islam. Then what? Do you change your hair color because Allah ordered you to? Or do you defend it by saying things like, this is how Allah created me, why would he create me in a certain way, then punish me, etc? I know that changing one's hair color, is nothing like changing one's sex (disorder). But its the example you gave.

Changing your natural hair colour so that instead of growing blonde hair you grw brown is impoosible. That is what I am getting at.

Also. I've noticed you keep dodging the part about how homosexuals are suppost to live their lives. I've asked you before if you agree with Laila's post? It seems the only right Laila seems to think homosexuals have, is the right to live. Do you agree? You keep saying homosexual lust, in Islam, is not the same as homosexual love. Please explain.

When have I been dodging it?

And I've only brought up lust vs love once. I am sure you know the difference between the two. I find females attractive, yes, and to do that would be lusting after them. I've also been in love with girls- you know, the wanting to be with them,be married, have kids, grow old together.

Of course it's not. According to you that is.

And according to modern science, that is.

I've read through this entire thread jamaesi. And i have not come across one person telling you that you are disgusting, going to hell, or that you're no better than an animal. If you're generalizing, because some posters have called homosexuality disgusting, well, that's his/ her right.

This isn't just in this thread I've been called things.

Why do you keep writing G-d?

Because that is how I write it. I have a lot of personal reasons for this that are out of the scope of this thread- I'd be happy to discuss this over IM or PM.

does not excuse the fact that she is committing a horrible sin and will go to hellfire unless she repents. And in Islam and according to the Sunnah of Allah and the Prophet she would be killed for exposing the sin. If she would have kept it to herself it would have been better in the eyes of Allah.

God is for everyone but God is just and to commit and injustice against Allah requires Him the Creator to hand out His punishment.

Hmm! I was very unaware love is a horrible transgression against G-d.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

When did I say you disregard the Quran is there a hidden meaning in your message?]/quote] You disregard the Quran when you disregard the commands of the Sunnah of the Messenger

Traditional Arabic dress is not necessary. Covering the hair is not necessary. These statements do not contradict the Quran.

It does, the Quran says, OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER. the Prophet pbuh laid down the rules concerning hijab. You disregard it you disregard the Quran. I believe I have stated the evidence in my post.

The upper limits are set by God in the Quran the word of Allah.

Exactly, so When Allah says to obey the Messenger in your mind this is not the upper limits as you say.

If the Sunna of the Prophet was the same I would have no problem with this. However, since the Sunna states that stoning is a punishment I can't accept this as coming from God. The Sunna is not the literal word of Allah.

Wow, la howla wala quwatta illah billah.

Who wrote the Sunna? Who authenticated it? why the concern about what is authentic or not? the Noble Quran is 100% authentic, the divine writ.

Wow, you obviously do not know and you have know idea about what the Quran says about the companions.

As a Sunni Muslim I accept from the Hadith that which does not contradict the Quran. The verses from God cannot (never) be abrogated by any external source; regardless of where it is from. The Quran is a complete way of life. I will never follow a Hadith when it talks about punishments not found in the Quran.

You are not sunni for you reject the sunnah, the verses in the Quran are abrogated by verses in the Quran, but since your knowledge is obviously limited in terms of tafsir you would not know that.

When did I ever say I 'only' follow the Quran.

You say it every time you reject an authentic hadith from the Messenger.

However, since you've mentioned it, I'll find the verses regarding (prayer) in the Quran. This will be my next thread, but you may have to give my a few months!

Yes please show me from evidence in the Quran exactly how to pray. Step by Step.

Evidence for what? hmm...it is dangerous to underestimate someone.

I have only determined my assumption off of your answers which lack evidence to support it. I didn't underestimate you but you are discrediting your ownself, by stating you are sunni yet you do not accept parts of the sunnah. what are you talking about. You are just like any Christian who rejects the old testament and only accepts the New.

Wake up sister learn your religion arees.org

Ask the sheihk about it
Islamic Networking - Powered by vBulletin

Quit denying half of your religion and follow the guide of Muhammed and obey his commands. The Authority and Importance of the Sunnah - Religious Education

The evidence is clear.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Maybe you have committed a horrible sin in what you have just said. According to the Sunna of Allah, she would be killed?

Provide the evidence from the Quran.

The Quran says obey Muhammed and Muhammed gave this order for this sin. Besides Allah destroyed the people of Lut for this sin are you saying she deserves the punishment He gave them. for that is the evidence she should be killed from the Quran. Allah killed them as stated in the Quran. And what sin have I committed. I said she committed a horrible sin as Allah describes it in the Quran. They the people of Lut received the worst punishment for this sin. If she does not make Tauwbah she as we all will be punished. I need it you need it. We all need to make Tauwbah. Am I perfect no, but I do not openly profess my sins to the world. What kinda heart must a person have to not care if people see them engaging in this sin.

Why are you defending a sin that Allah has cursed. You make no sense.