Moses said, Unto him ye shall hearken

[YoursTrue]

Side question. Why do you call a "ruach" a "holy spirit?"

I don't. I added the word holy.
If I recall, it's kodesh ruach. At least what I am referring to. As hashem said, he is what he is.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, I speak Hebrew. Given that the word "god" does not show up in the Hebrew Tanakh one has to know what is actually there and what the words in the text of the Hebrew Tanakh actually means. I explained that in the video. Also, I explained how Athiests define themselves and what their definitions are and those definitions are different than what is found in the Hebrew Tanakh.

Also, in the video I explained the verificiation process. I.e. it is not a written text verification only. It is a veritification of a oral and written claims of the Torah and how it was received. Jews being the ones who received it in the past, a Jew in the modern day descends from the Jews who are "claimed" to have received it in the past. Thus, a Jew would have to use the same investigation process used by historians when determining if a claim in history took place or not of our own ancestors.

For example, a person who descends from the American "founding fathers" would have a historical method of investigating if the American revolution took place or not that would start with what has been passed down through their family orally and in written form and then investigate the archeology and 2nd - 3rd hand sources.

This is normally called in historical verification "convergence of facts." Torah based Jews do this verification every day from childhood to the grave and have been doing so for thousands of years.

That's ok. (Still no answer.) But it's ok. Layla tov, it's getting late.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I don't. I added the word holy.
If I recall, it's kodesh ruach. At least what I am referring to. As hashem said, he is what he is.

Okay. Still. (רוח הקודש) Ruach HaQodesh doesn't translate into "Holy Spirit." It would translate into "Set-apart/distinct wind." Just wondering why Christians came up with the idea of it being a "spirit." I can kind of understand where they got the "holy" from even though "qodesh" is bit more than holy. Either way, okay now I understand where you got that.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

My family is Jewish. I went to synagogue with them for years. I can guarantee you they do not know what the Tanach says.

Is your family Ashkenazi? If so, where were they from in Europe?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I added the word holy. It means spirit. But to come to know God can only be done by God. Since I am not the expert, I am also learning, I suggest you refer to the jw.org website to get further answers.

So since you say your family is Jewish, do you come from a Reform or secular household?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I think I told you. You may also want to look up on the jw.org website "What do Jehovah's Witnesses believe"? Only God can reveal the truth to you. It seems like a mystery maybe it is. Seek and ye shall find. You can look up many topics there.

I looked and I didn't find anything in the JW web-site that answered my question. I was able to peice it together from certain things that JW's do put on line.

What I do know is that I found this:

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Satan is God's chief adversary and the invisible ruler of the world. They believe that demons were originally angels who rebelled against God and took Satan's side in the controversy. However, Jesus identified Satan as the criminal mastermind behind the corrupt world we live in. He called him “the ruler of this world.”

Much missionary work involves visiting door-to-door to discuss scripture with people they meet. A successful discussion will lead to return trips, and possibly to home Bible studies. The aim is to persuade a non-believer of the rightness of their cause so that they eventually become a Witness themselves.

Deliverance from sin and death is possible through the ransom sacrifice of Jesus. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 4:12) To benefit from that sacrifice, people must not only exercise faith in Jesus but also change their course of life and get baptized.
​

So, this is what I was really getting at when I made the "we Jews don't have a lake of fire concept for non-beleivers." I.e. we don't have this "satan as the criminal mastermind behind the corrupt world we live in" and we don't have a "Deliverance from sin and death is possible through the ransom sacrifice" thus we don't have a concept that we have to go out into the world and missionize to people who aren't Jewish and convince them to become Jews.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

What do you mean the word god does not show up in the Hebrew tanach?

Literally, if a person takes a Hebrew Tanakh you won't find the word "God" in it. The word god is an English word that carries a very specific set of concepts in it that does not exist in the Hebrew text of the Tanakh. That is important.

Ok so the verification process convinced you that what? What Moses wrote is true?

The verification process "convinces" (on-going) me that the Oral and Written accounts (which include the Hebrew Torah) of my family and all ancient Jewish communities that the events that took place at Mount Sinai were caused/orchestrated by the Source of creation and that holding by what the Source gave to all who were there is reliable.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I think I told you. You may also want to look up on the jw.org website "What do Jehovah's Witnesses believe"? Only God can reveal the truth to you. It seems like a mystery maybe it is. Seek and ye shall find. You can look up many topics there.

Years ago, I did some study in JW's after a group of JW's came by my family's house. They tried to give us a red book that full of wild/strange pictures depicting the NT book of revelations. Over the years a number of Christian missionaries, from different Christian sects, have tried to convince me of their views. After that I did a deep dive study into the "various" Christian concepts. The following link is a collection of the results of that deep dive I did.

Simple Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus and Christianity

 

[YoursTrue]

When it comes to people who question "the scriptures" you have to ask the following questions.

1. Who are the "many people?"
2. Which "the scriptures" do they question?
3. What exactly are their questions?
4. Have they searched within Jewish sources for answers or strictly Christian ones?
5. If they have checked Jewish sources - have they done so across the entire Jewish spectrum of ancient Jewish communities? (Mizrahi, Yemanite, Sephardic, Maghrebi, Ashkenazi)

This would be the starting point of such a question or consideration. Personally note, most of the people I know who "question" Jewish history often have a limited view of Jewish history and often ignore whole swaths of it. Some I have seen do so in order to come to their conclusions.

In terms of what I beleive, I look at it from a different perspective. I "know" how to ascertain the truth until the system that has come from Har Sinai is systematically proven wrong using the correct disciplines to do so. For us Jews who hold by Torath Mosheh it is not the text that determines what the truth is - it is the historical oral and written mesorah (transmitted information) that we use to determine what the truth of a matter is.

All right, I will try to explain what I meant by 'many people.' There are those who profess to be religious in one form or another, but argue and teach among sects or divisions as to what the Bible means or if it mythical in many parts rather than actual. The flood of Noah for one example. Although some may claim to be religious and say they base their form of religion on the scriptures, they deny the scriptures in many ways. I'll go back to the three men who were thrown in the fiery furnace (book of Daniel) because they refused to bow down to the king. Few would do this. The creation of Adam and Eve, is another instance that many, although they go to church, do not think it's a truthful account.. Many claim to believe in evolution rather than the creation account in the Bible, yet either go to church or go through rituals as if it's the thing to do. Tradition, as they say. But yet, when push comes to shove, how does God see their lives?

 

[YoursTrue]

Literally, if a person takes a Hebrew Tanakh you won't find the word "God" in it. The word god is an English word that carries a very specific set of concepts in it that does not exist in the Hebrew text of the Tanakh. That is important.
.

OK, I see what you're saying. The word 'el' is there, also elohim. And, of course, what is known as the tetragrammaton. As far as the word 'god' goes, I see what you may be saying, but I'd have to do further research on that. Although el and elohim are translated as god.

 

[YoursTrue]

Years ago, I did some study in JW's after a group of JW's came by my family's house. They tried to give us a red book that full of wild/strange picture depicting the NT book of revelations. Over the years a number of Christian missionaries, from different Christian sects, have tried to convince me of their views. After that I did a deep dive study into the "various" Christian concepts. The following link is a collection of the results of that deep dive I did.

Simple Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe in Jesus and Christianity

When I was studying some years ago with Jehovah's Witnesses before I decided to join them, I called a Jewish theological seminary to make sure. I got no real answer, no explanation, the man simply said in reference to my question about Daniel and the foretold eventuality, "We don't believe that.." "You don't believe that?" I asked. "No," he said. I thought about that and after that conversation made my decision to stick with the Witnesses who answered my questions using the Bible.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

OK, I see what you're saying. The word 'el' is there, also elohim. And, of course, what is known as the tetragrammaton. As far as the word 'god' goes, I see what you may be saying, but I'd have to do further research on that. Although el and elohim are translated as god.

What I am saying is that the words (אל) and (אלהים) do not translate into "god." If you look into the three letter roots of each word you will find that by defintion they don't mean what "god" means by definition in English. Most people wouldn't call their local judges gods but the word (אלהים) can be used for local Torah based judges. The use of "god" as a substitute is a bit of the cop out that a Hebrew speaker feel forced into when speaking/writng in English "IF' the decide to fully use the language of the west. I don't do this because I think it hurts the clarity of the difference and the point and is one of the reasons that missionaries keeping coming back for more from Jews because they think we are speaking the same language when we are not.

No different than how the word (משיח) mashi'ahh doesn't mean messiah. The closest Hebrew that could be translated into the english "messiah" would be (מושיע) "moshi'a." The two words do not at all carry the same meaning yet English speaking Jews often recognize this but often feel that the have to the English vanucular in these sitautions.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

When I was studying some years ago with Jehovah's Witnesses before I decided to join them, I called a Jewish theological seminary to make sure. I got no real answer, no explanation, the man simply said in reference to my question about Daniel and the foretold eventuality, "We don't believe that.." "You don't believe that?" I asked. "No," he said. I thought about that and after that conversation made my decision to stick with the Witnesses who answered my questions using the Bible.

JTS is a Reform/Conservative movement seminary. Both of these movements are about 200 years old and came out of the attempt by some European Jews to distance themselves from Torath Mosheh and to be more European. Neither movement even claims to be Torath Mosheh and neither movement is found in the rest of the Jewish world. (They can even verify this as a reality.) Essentially, you asked the wrong people.

 

[YoursTrue]

What I am saying is that the words (אל) and (אלהים) do not translate into "god." If you look into the three letter roots of each word you will find that by defintion they don't mean what "god" means by definition in English. Most people wouldn't call their local judges gods but the word (אלהים) can be used for local Torah based judges. The use of "god" as a substitute is a bit of the cop out that a Hebrew speaker feel forced into when speaking/writng in English "IF' the decide to fully use the language of the west. I don't do this because I think it hurts the clarity of the difference and the point and is one of the reasons that missionaries keeping coming back for more from Jews because they think we are speaking the same language when we are not.

No different than how the word (משיח) mashi'ahh doesn't mean messiah. The closest Hebrew that could be translated into the english "messiah" would be (מושיע) "moshi'a." The two words do not at all carry the same meaning yet English speaking Jews often recognize this but often feel that the have to the English vanucular in these sitautions.

I've been saying that in a somewhat different way for a long time because I know that Psalm 82 refers to others (human judges perhaps) as "gods". Elohim. So then, are you essentially saying that no english translation is good?

 

[YoursTrue]

JTS is a Reform/Conservative movement seminary. Both of these movements are about 200 years old and came out of the attempt by some European Jews to distance themselves from Torath Mosheh and to be more European. Neither movement even claims to be Torath Mosheh and neither movement is found in the rest of the Jewish world. (They can even verify this as a reality.) Essentially, you asked the wrong people.

Oh? So there are such profound differences amongst the various folds of Judaism? I see it's Friday night, not sure of the time in Israel now, so perhaps we can continue later. Yes, so far I've enjoyed learning with the Witnesses. Shalom.

 

[YoursTrue]

I looked and I didn't find anything in the JW web-site that answered my question. I was able to peice it together from certain things that JW's do put on line.

What I do know is that I found this:

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Satan is God's chief adversary and the invisible ruler of the world. They believe that demons were originally angels who rebelled against God and took Satan's side in the controversy. However, Jesus identified Satan as the criminal mastermind behind the corrupt world we live in. He called him “the ruler of this world.”​

That is essentially what I perceive as true from the beginning of the Bible in Genesis. God relinquished Adam and Eve to decide for themselves right from wrong. After they ate what He told them not to eat. I am glad that I learned this. On the other hand, God did give commandments from time to time, including those to the Jewish people by means of Moses. He is compassionate.​

 

[YoursTrue]

What I am saying is that the words (אל) and (אלהים) do not translate into "god." If you look into the three letter roots of each word you will find that by defintion they don't mean what "god" means by definition in English. Most people wouldn't call their local judges gods but the word (אלהים) can be used for local Torah based judges. The use of "god" as a substitute is a bit of the cop out that a Hebrew speaker feel forced into when speaking/writng in English "IF' the decide to fully use the language of the west. I don't do this because I think it hurts the clarity of the difference and the point and is one of the reasons that missionaries keeping coming back for more from Jews because they think we are speaking the same language when we are not.

No different than how the word (משיח) mashi'ahh doesn't mean messiah. The closest Hebrew that could be translated into the english "messiah" would be (מושיע) "moshi'a." The two words do not at all carry the same meaning yet English speaking Jews often recognize this but often feel that the have to the English vanucular in these sitautions.

It would be nice of anyone to clarify differences when relating to one another. I know mashiach means anointed one, just as oil was poured on the head.

 

[YoursTrue]

Okay. Still. (רוח הקודש) Ruach HaQodesh doesn't translate into "Holy Spirit." It would translate into "Set-apart/distinct wind." Just wondering why Christians came up with the idea of it being a "spirit." I can kind of understand where they got the "holy" from even though "qodesh" is bit more than holy. Either way, okay now I understand where you got that.

Allow me to elucidate. And I'm not the expert. Set-apart is a correct term for kodesh but just like 'el' is translated as God or god or maybe something else because that's the way language goes, Here is what I learned from wol.jw.org when looking up the word holy.
"The original Hebrew word conveys the thought of separateness, exclusiveness, or sanctification to the holy God; a state of being set aside..."

 

[YoursTrue]

Is your family Ashkenazi? If so, where were they from in Europe?

Poland and Russia, Ashkenazim. In-law relatives were from Turkey, sephardic Jews. So on Yom Kippur one family would go to a Sephardic synagogue while another went to an Ashkenazic synagogue. I associated myself because of family ties to Ashkenazi Jewry. I had the more curious nature, reading books such as Pirke Avot, later briefly looking into the Talmud to see what it said. I was glad Jehovah's witnesses came to my door although I told them at first I was not interested. I changed my mind about learning with them after the woman told me a few things.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Oh? So there are such profound differences amongst the various folds of Judaism? I see it's Friday night, not sure of the time in Israel now, so perhaps we can continue later. Yes, so far I've enjoyed learning with the Witnesses. Shalom.

Actually, there are no "folds of Judaism." Consider it that a group 200 years ago decided they want to follow Torath Mosheh. i.e. the Torah and Halakha that came from Mount Sinai that was given by Hashem. That group wanted to keep being Jewish as a "side" culture w/o really doing what Hashem commanded at Mount Sinai in order to be able to blend into segments of European Soceity. They essentially had to call themselves something and eventually the term came up was "Reform Judaism." A later movement started in Europe and took off in America that didn't want to go as far as the "Reform Movement" and but also didn't want to do Torath Mosheh as it had been received at Mount Sinai either and eventually it became known as the "Conservative Movement."

If you research both movements, their histories and their claims, neither of them will claim to be Torath Mosheh/Judaism that came out of Mount Sinai nor will the claim to be from something that had already existed before their movements. The expectation would be that they would claim to be the original "Judaism" if anything if one were to consider if they as movements were representative of what Hashem gave at Mount Sinai. One would also expect them to be found in the most ancient Jewish communities aroune the world and they are not.

I hope that helps.