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Mormon or Christians?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by TheGreaterGame, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    I would think it placed a great deal of importance on the Word even allowing for the various standards of inerrancy
     
  2. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    The definition of Christian is:

    Chris┬Ětian (kr[​IMG]s[​IMG]ch[​IMG]n)
    adj.
    1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
    2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
    3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
    4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
    5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
    n.
    1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
    2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.
    definition from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Christian

    Mormons are Christians because they 1.) Profess belief in Jesus as Christ and follow the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2.) Their religion is related to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings. 3.) They manifest the qualities or spirit of Jesus; and try to be Christlike. 4.) Their religion is Related to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents. 5.) They Show a loving concern for others; and are humane. The members of their Church, 1.) profess belief in Jesus as Christ and follow the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. and 2,) live according to the teachings of Jesus.
     
  3. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

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    If they are equal and not the same being, there is more than one God. In that case you are contradicitng the Bible's MANY proclomations agaisnt there being more than one God.

    This thread just convinced me that Mormons really are not Christians but want us to see them that way. You use a lot of loops, jumps, and twists to try and get us to think you really believe in Jesus but you DON'T. If he is NOT God, he cannot be EQUAL to God, because that would make TWO gods, and that contradicts the Bible. Hence, Mormonism is not exactly Biblical, to say the least.
     
  4. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

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    They do not believe in Jesus because they either htink He is a God and that there is more than one god, or that he is NOT a God, which clearly would keep them from being Christians. Their religion is not derived from jesus' techings, it is derived from Joseph Smith's teachings. Their religion is nothing like the Christianity of history or current Christianity. GO LOOK UP EARLY CHURCH QUOTATIONS!! There are no Mormon beliefs among them!
     
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  5. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    well according to the Mormons on the bord they think nothing of the sort. I'm curious why you insist you know what the Mormons believe dispite what ACTUAL Mormons tell you thier faith is like.:bonk:
    Mormons follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith is the founder of the faith, respected but not held to the same level as Jesus or God.:banghead3

    wa:do
     
  6. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    pah.... most Christians I know believe "the Word" refered to here is Jesus Christ.... not the Bible.
     
  7. Uncertaindrummer

    Uncertaindrummer Active Member

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    I am not insisting I know what Mormons believe; I am just restating what they have said ON THIS FORUM. They have said Jesus is God and Jesus is not one with the Father. That is polytheism. Others have stated they DON'T believe more than one God exists, in which Case, since Jesus is not God, he msut be LESS then God, in which case they do not follow Jesus teachings, mainly, the fact that He IS god.
     
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  8. TheGreaterGame

    TheGreaterGame Active Member

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    I think I have been pretty consistent . . . so I have a hard time understanding how you can be so inconsistent in what you belive and claim that your consistent.
     
  9. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    I said they were not the same being--one in body. Then I quoted John and said they were one--in purpose. Perhaps it's time to post Katzpur's list for the fourth time. Let us know if which of these statements you disagree with.

    2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

    Mosiah 15:5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.

    Alma 11:44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

    3 Nephi 11:27 And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.

    Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
     
  10. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    The bible contradicts itself. The word Gods is used 215 times in the KJV
    Gen 1:26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Ex 18:11 Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

    1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
     
  11. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    how have I been inconsistant in what I believe? :sarcastic

    wa:do
     
  12. TheGreaterGame

    TheGreaterGame Active Member

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    Are Momons Trinitarians?
     
  13. TheGreaterGame

    TheGreaterGame Active Member

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    check out post 33 this issue is dealt with.
     
  14. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Where is Anders when you need him

    But Strongs is available, my personal copy to be exact. The Greek for word is logos. the same logos used in Acts 13:49 and 19:10 (where in this case Jesus used logos, not refering to himself). Paul used it a lot too! The sense of the word "Word" is not Jesus; it is simply "word", or "Word" in the case of John.

    I'm sure that many other phrases and verse have taken on meaning that is not in the original.
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    According to the Athanasian Creed, "So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.... So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits."

    Here we have one Father (who is God), one Son (who is God) and one Holy Spirit (who is God). But everything works out just fine and dandy if we insist that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Whatever... I learned how to count when I was in Kindergarten.

    Personally, Drummer, I could care less whether you think I'm a Christian or not. The only thing that really matters to me is what my Heavenly Father thinks and, believe me, He knows my mind and heart a whole lot better than you do. That said, I would not even presume to tell you what you believe. In my opinion, that is the absolute height of arrogance.

    When I profess a believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as my Savior and Redeemer, and you have the audacity to tell me that this isn't what I believe at all, I simply have to conclude that you are not worth the time spent pursuing the argument.

    Kathryn
     
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    You are asking for a warning. Is that what you really want? Your knowledge of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is pathetic, to say the least. Nobody is asking you to accept LDS doctrine, but it is highly inappropriate for you to think you have the right to define or interpret our beliefs for us. We are entirely capable of doing that on our own.
     
  17. TheGreaterGame

    TheGreaterGame Active Member

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    The propositional arguement is that Mormons claim they are Christians and are not on the ground of the stated 3 arguements. Do Christians not have the right to write a polemic when someone claims that they are the genuine article. This is again not a matter of trying to demonize a people group but it is a matter of authoratative truth, past history, and weighing it with objectivity and not subjectivity. With sencerity thegg
     
  18. TheGreaterGame

    TheGreaterGame Active Member

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    So unequvically their is more then one God, right? I think that is what you are stating Kat.
    So this does make Jesus out to be a god and not thee God. The diety of Christ is not something to be taken lightly.
     
  19. DeepShadow

    DeepShadow White Crow

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    Looking back over my response to Michel, I realize I've been a little reactionary, and I apologize. I'm getting too hung up in all this. I'm going to take a break, refocus and pray away the spirit of contention. God's love and blessings upon you all. I make these last few comments because I misjudged Michel, and I believe he deserves an apology as public as the original rebuke. I understand now, and I apologize for any harshness in my reaction.
     
  20. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Thegg,

    Of course you and Drummer have every right in the world to state your opinion that Mormon doctrine is false. What I am objecting to is that either of you (and I was directing my comments to him, actually) feel you have the right to tell me what I believe. That is exactly what Drummer was doing. When I say, "Mormons believe...", followed by a statement of our belief, it is highly offensive to me to hear some non-Mormon say, "Oh, no. That's not what you believe at all." Tell me I'm wrong to believe as I do, but don't claim to be able to read my mind.

    Secondly, according to your criteria, Catholics aren't Christians either, since they neither accept the Bible as inerrant nor believe in the doctrine of sola fide (your 1st and 3rd arguments). You continue to ignore me on this issue, hoping, I guess, that sooner or later, I'll forget. Well, guess what? I won't. You still havent addressed any of the topics you ignored the first time around, even though you agreed you'd do so, and I went to the trouble of reposting all of them a second time.

    Kathryn
     
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