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I take the divinity of my Lord and Savior very seriously, thegg.TheGreaterGame said:So unequvically their is more then one God, right? I think that is what you are stating Kat.
So this does make Jesus out to be a god and not thee God. The diety of Christ is not something to be taken lightly.
Godhead as in the Trinitarian Godhead . . . or Godhead as in, Three Gods . . . which would ultimately conclude a multiplicity of gods . . . which leaves you with a theological whole the size of Texas . . . who is the original God. Before YHWY, before Christ . . . which God's were in the council of the God's as The Book of Abraham speaks of in chapter 4 (take the whole chapter as reference please)Godhead
thegg,TheGreaterGame said:Godhead as in the Trinitarian Godhead . . . or Godhead as in, Three Gods . . . which would ultimately conclude a multiplicity of gods . . . which leaves you with a theological whole the size of Texas . . . who is the original God. Before YHWY, before Christ . . . which God's were in the council of the God's as The Book of Abraham speaks of in chapter 4 (take the whole chapter as reference please)
There is not authorataive truth, it is all personal opinion and/or personal revelation. Every faith is subjectiveTheGreaterGame said:The propositional arguement is that Mormons claim they are Christians and are not on the ground of the stated 3 arguements. Do Christians not have the right to write a polemic when someone claims that they are the genuine article. This is again not a matter of trying to demonize a people group but it is a matter of authoratative truth, past history, and weighing it with objectivity and not subjectivity. With sencerity thegg
I'm going to support that request. Debate is not to be one sided, one direction. You owe answers.Secondly, according to your criteria, Catholics aren't Christians either, since they neither accept the Bible as inerrant nor believe in the doctrine of sola fide (your 1st and 3rd arguments). You continue to ignore me on this issue, hoping, I guess, that sooner or later, I'll forget. Well, guess what? I won't. You still havent addressed any of the topics you ignored the first time around, even though you agreed you'd do so, and I went to the trouble of reposting all of them a second time.
John 14:28Uncertaindrummer said:I am not insisting I know what Mormons believe; I am just restating what they have said ON THIS FORUM. They have said Jesus is God and Jesus is not one with the Father. That is polytheism. Others have stated they DON'T believe more than one God exists, in which Case, since Jesus is not God, he msut be LESS then God, in which case they do not follow Jesus teachings, mainly, the fact that He IS god.
Any so called Christian, who tries to prove and convince others that someone else is not a Christian to me is not a Christian.TheGreaterGame said:The LDS is making strides in the public eye that they are in fact Christian. To be a Mormon is to be a Christian. As if Mormon and Christians were interchangable terms. So therefore I open this thread for this debate. It is my humble, but accurate description that Mormonism is infact not Christianity . . . on the grounds . . .
1. Mormons do not belive in the infallability of the Bible.
The Bible and the historic Church affirms that the 66 Books of the OT & NT are infact the inspired word of God and are without question "God's Word" in written form. However Mormons declare that the bible is erred.
2. Mormons do not belive in the diety of Christ.
The Bible and the historic Church affirms from the teachings of the Bible plainly declare that Jesus is of the same nature and substance of the Eternal God and is equal with God the Father and God the Spirit in Triunity. However Mormons declare that Jesus is just a sub-god . . . who distinctly different from God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
3. Mormons do not belive in the doctrine of Justifacation By Faith.
The bible and the Protestant Reformation affirms from the teachings of the Bible that man is made "legally right" in the eyes of God by having faith (implication "trust") in Christ as Lord and Savior. The moment a sinner belives . . . He is counted righteous because Christ has imputed His impecablity to that sinner . . . and so that God can remain "Just" (because it would be unjust to let a sinner get away with sin) the sinners sin is imputed to Christ. However Mormons believe that it takes following "the words of wisdom," temple rights, good works, and adhering to the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Modern Prophets.
These are just 3 arguments made to disprove the claim of Mormons. That being said, most Mormons I have met are genuine in that they are faithful to their cause (which I respect) and they hold to a similar value system Born again Christians hold to. This thread is not to demonize Mormons, but it is meant to disprove the claims that Mormons have made.
Trying to put NUMBERS which we invented into God is ridiculous. If you want to TRY and get nubers out of it, use 1x1x1=1. Maks mroe sense.Katzpur said:According to the Athanasian Creed, "So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.... So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits."
Here we have one Father (who is God), one Son (who is God) and one Holy Spirit (who is God). But everything works out just fine and dandy if we insist that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1. Whatever... I learned how to count when I was in Kindergarten.
I have not told anyone what they believe, I have QUOTED YOU. So tell me. Is Jesus God? If so, there are two Gods. Is there not more than one God? Than Jesus must be the same as the Father. If not, Jesus must beLESS than the father. I have not been telling you what you believe, I have been restating what you yourself have said.Personally, Drummer, I could care less whether you think I'm a Christian or not. The only thing that really matters to me is what my Heavenly Father thinks and, believe me, He knows my mind and heart a whole lot better than you do. That said, I would not even presume to tell you what you believe. In my opinion, that is the absolute height of arrogance.
If you would just answer the questions, I would stop claiming anything.When I profess a believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as my Savior and Redeemer, and you have the audacity to tell me that this isn't what I believe at all, I simply have to conclude that you are not worth the time spent pursuing the argument.
I did not ask for a hsitory of the LDS. I told you to read HISTORY. The Church of the Early centuries was not Mormon, and if you want to start a thread on it, we can.Katzpur said:You are asking for a warning. Is that what you really want? Your knowledge of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is pathetic, to say the least. Nobody is asking you to accept LDS doctrine, but it is highly inappropriate for you to think you have the right to define or interpret our beliefs for us. We are entirely capable of doing that on our own.
Secondly, according to your criteria, Catholics aren't Christians either, since they neither accept the Bible as inerrant nor believe in the doctrine of sola fide (your 1st and 3rd arguments). You continue to ignore me on this issue, hoping, I guess, that sooner or later, I'll forget. Well, guess what? I won't. You still havent addressed any of the topics you ignored the first time around, even though you agreed you'd do so, and I went to the trouble of reposting all of them a second time.
Well if I subscribe to your "subjectice, exestential, releativism" then guess what . . . I'm right . . . and your in no position to tell me I'm not . . . fortunately I don't adhere to Eastern Philosophy . . . I subscribe to the bible . . . and it is authoratative . . . it tells man what man is to belive about God . . . and what God expects from man.There is not authorataive truth, it is all personal opinion and/or personal revelation. Every faith is subjective
Here on this forum it is the responsibilty of moderators to determine demonization. You would do well to heed that for it is not allowed
You tire to easily. If truth were imporant you would come back to the table. Besides the first night you asked for a response I gave you one. But lets not play coy . . . you have not answered your own theological gaps.thegg,
I hope you'll excuse me for bowing out of this discussion. I have done my level best to respond to your inquiries. You continue to ignore mine. You also have proven to me that you really have no desire at all to actually understand what I believe. I say this because, regardless of the answers I have given you, you simply continue to ask the same questions and make the same accusations over and over again. I'm starting to lose my patience, to be perfectly honest. I really don't have any desire whatsoever to get into a heated argument with you, and that's obviously where we are headed. It's one thing to disagree, but we are literally going around in circles here. If I thought for a minute that I was making any headway at all (not in convincing you that my beliefs are right, but in helping you to understand them), I'd be happy to continue this discussion ad infinum. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Perhaps we'll talk again some time and will even find some common ground on another topic.
Vatican II suggests that their are no more heretics because of the RCC views on InclusivismCatholics most certainly DO believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, you obviously do NOT know what you are talking about. As for Sola Fide, that is a heretical doctrine, but you are correct--some protestants DO NOT believe Catholics are Christians.