More random questions about girls

[T-Dawg]

One of the best tactics for letting a girl know you like her, is to ride your bike back and forth on the street she lives on. Then, if she comes out of her house, ride on like you don't even know she's there and ride home. This is pretty much fool-proof.

I don't have a bike, and we're in a college dorm environment. There's no street, or house...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't have a bike, and we're in a college dorm environment. There's no street, or house...

That's unfortunate.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would she find it creepy? 3.) is completely based off of a suggestion given by a poster here (leave the gift at her door with a tag on it), and 4.) is just being in the same place to observe how she reacts.

Did you listen to that podcast I linked to? It touches on things like this a bit.

Certain behaviours are appropriate in one type of relalationship but not in others (BTW - by "relationship", I'm talking about interpersonal interactions in general, not just romantic relationships).

Giving of personal gifts (i.e. directly from one person to another as opposed to other types of gifts like charitable donations) is usually done in the context of a communal relationship like either friendship or couplehood. The underlying principle of a communal relationship is basically "share and share alike" - people do nice things for their family, friends and romantic partners because they're their family, friends and romantic partners, not because they expect to be reimbursed or get some sort of material gain from doing it. However, this behaviour is based on the relationship that already exists.

OTOH, in many social situations, the "default" when no other form of relationship is present is reciprocity: basically "tit for tat". In this form of relationship, people do things for each other, but with the expectation of reward. For example, think of a restaurant: a waiter doesn't bring you food just to be nice to you; he does it because he expects you to pay your bill at the end of the meal.

When a girl (or anyone) gets an unexpected gift, she'll try to figure out the meaning and motive behind it. The relationship between the giver (you) and the recipient (her) will partly determine that meaning. If she doesn't know you well, she probably won't recognize a communality-type relationship between you two yet; if she thinks you gave her the gift on that basis, then she'll probably consider it inappropriate. There's also a chance that she'll see it in the context of a reciprocity relationship and assume that you want to get something from her in exchange for the gift.

Probably so. That's why I keep the vase secret until I observe a positive reaction from the flowers.

Okay, but as soon as you pull the vase out, she'll know you gave her the flowers. There's no need for deception.

Also, if you leave a bouquet of cut flowers just sitting in air without a vase, they'll die quickly.

I wish this was true, but experience has shown me that good and honest intentions don't protect one from the wrath of a female =/. Even though nothing in this plan is morally wrong, it might be necessary to hide so she won't rip me to shreds.

In that case, maybe it's better to hold off until you think there's a good chance that she won't rip you to shreds.

 

[Nanda]

Perhaps the best approach is to first say hi to the girl, introduce yourself if she doesn’t know you, and ask if she would like to go hangout someplace, maybe with a group. If she says no, at least you tried.

^This is the guy you need to listen to.^ His plan is simple, uncomplicated and straightforward. Also, he's pretty much the best boyfriend ever.

Actually, Darwin says that I will live my entire life alone and rejected by society because I have Asperger's

Bologna. Papersock has Asperger's and we're happy as clams. (Clams?)

 

[3.14]

step 1 define yourself
step 2 gather courage
step 3 find girl about your age
step 4 let her know you exist
step 5 when she's alone ask her out
step 6 set date/go to step 3

 

[T-Dawg]

Did you listen to that podcast I linked to? It touches on things like this a bit.

I did, but I didn't see any relation to what was going on =/.

Certain behaviours are appropriate in one type of relalationship but not in others (BTW - by "relationship", I'm talking about interpersonal interactions in general, not just romantic relationships).Giving of personal gifts (i.e. directly from one person to another as opposed to other types of gifts like charitable donations) is usually done in the context of a communal relationship like either friendship or couplehood. The underlying principle of a communal relationship is basically "share and share alike" - people do nice things for their family, friends and romantic partners because they're their family, friends and romantic partners, not because they expect to be reimbursed or get some sort of material gain from doing it. However, this behaviour is based on the relationship that already exists.OTOH, in many social situations, the "default" when no other form of relationship is present is reciprocity: basically "tit for tat". In this form of relationship, people do things for each other, but with the expectation of reward. For example, think of a restaurant: a waiter doesn't bring you food just to be nice to you; he does it because he expects you to pay your bill at the end of the meal.When a girl (or anyone) gets an unexpected gift, she'll try to figure out the meaning and motive behind it. The relationship between the giver (you) and the recipient (her) will partly determine that meaning. If she doesn't know you well, she probably won't recognize a communality-type relationship between you two yet; if she thinks you gave her the gift on that basis, then she'll probably consider it inappropriate. There's also a chance that she'll see it in the context of a reciprocity relationship and assume that you want to get something from her in exchange for the gift.

Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thanks.

Okay, but as soon as you pull the vase out, she'll know you gave her the flowers. There's no need for deception.

That's fine, as long as she reacted positively to the flowers in the first place. What deception is everyone talking about? I don't see any deception in the whole plan.

Also, if you leave a bouquet of cut flowers just sitting in air without a vase, they'll die quickly.

How long? The ones I see in the store seem to be fine...

In that case, maybe it's better to hold off until you think there's a good chance that she won't rip you to shreds.

You'll never know untl you try with those kinds of things =/. The response is usually negative, but the teenage instincts have authority above common sense in most cases, unfortuantely. I'm pretty sure this gal won't rip me to shreds anyway, she's a community leader for a reason XD.

Bologna. Papersock has Asperger's and we're happy as clams. (Clams?)

Which is why I don't listen to Darwin much XD.
Er, I take it the two of you are dating?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I did, but I didn't see any relation to what was going on =/.

Just that certain behaviours are most appropriate for certain types of relationship, and when a person behaves in a way that's inappropriate to the relationship as one or both people understand it, it causes awkwardness. Sometimes extreme awkwardness, as in the case of someone getting "creeped out".

That's fine, as long as she reacted positively to the flowers in the first place. What deception is everyone talking about? I don't see any deception in the whole plan.

Hiding the fact that it's you giving the flowers can be seen as deception.

How long? The ones I see in the store seem to be fine...

Usually, the flowers at the store will be in a bucket of water.

If you leave flowers out of water more than a few hours, they'll start to wilt and die. Exactly how long it takes depends on the type of flower - some are more sensitive than others. If you're lucky, the shop will put the stems of the flowers in something to help, like either a vial of water or a special sort of wet foam, but these things dry out eventually. Florists generally recommend that you put flowers in water as quickly as you can - within a few hours, anyhow.

 

[Aquitaine]

Girls are stupid, throw stones at them.

^_^

 

[T-Dawg]

Sometimes extreme awkwardness, as in the case of someone getting "creeped out".

So that's what "creeped out" means...

If you leave flowers out of water more than a few hours, they'll start to wilt and die. Exactly how long it takes depends on the type of flower - some are more sensitive than others. If you're lucky, the shop will put the stems of the flowers in something to help, like either a vial of water or a special sort of wet foam, but these things dry out eventually. Florists generally recommend that you put flowers in water as quickly as you can - within a few hours, anyhow.

Ah, ok, a few hours. That outta be enough time, and I can probably secure a water supply anyway.

Now the problem of how to get the flowers.... there's walmart, but they're ridiculously expensive and low-quality in the flower department, from what I've heard. (Besides, I have a discount at a local flower shop. Local business is almost always better than huge corporate giants ) But how do I get there without having to inform someone of what I'm going to be doing?

 

[Nanda]

Which is why I don't listen to Darwin much XD.
Er, I take it the two of you are dating?

He's my boyfriend, yes.

 

[dawny0826]

1.) Is there a social rule that states that a girl cannot date a guy younger than her? I tend to be attracted to older girls =/.

I think there is a double standard that exists. I've always felt that women who date younger men are more scoffed at then men who date younger women. When I was in college, I found that younger guys showed more interest than guys my age and older and few I would have considered dating, had they been my age or older. For me personally, I felt that the younger guys weren't as mature. Maybe that was unfair of me but I felt more comfortable dating guys more my age.

2.) Since the girls and boys have separate living areas in my college, how would I go about delivering gifts to a girl (without her directly knowing that it's from me, as it's creepy to give a girl things when she knows they're from me)? My two ideas were climb to the window and drop the gift in, and hiring a spy/friend to deliver it for me, but I decided that both options were both creepy and impossible.

Truthfully, you've sort of illustrated my point, here. If you're interested enough in a girl to want to give her a gift but do not have the gumption to give it to her, yourself, why should she give you the time of day? Ascertaining someone's interest in you is hard enough as it is. Why play games? If you like her, introduce yourself and if there's some sort of connection, ask her out.

3.) How do you know whether or not a girl already has a boyfriend without hiring a spy to find out (since you can't directly ask her)?

Why can't you ask her directly?

4.) How do you ask what religion a girl is without directly asking her (since that's taboo for some reason, just like asking about her relational status)?

Whatever. Ask her.

5.) Do girls actually like stuffed animals, flowers and jewelry, or are those just stereotypical, non-creative gifts?

Not from guys who aren't confident enough to present them in preson. And to avoid the creep factor, you really should be an aquaintance, at least.

6.) Is it ok to ask a girl to a dance directly, or is it like asking her out to the first date, where you have to be "subtle" and confusing?

Are you serious?

7.) Would a girl rather you wear a business suit to the first date, or a t-shirt and jeans?

Depends on the venue.

8.) Should you try to become friends with someone you have a crush on and then ask them out, or will you get stuck in the "just friends" area forever?

If you have an interest in someone and aren't interested in sticking around in the "just friends" arena forever, you should be forthright with your intentions. If it doesn't work out, there's other fish in the sea. There's no logic in wasting time on someone who doesn't feel the same way.

9.) Do girls actually like being liked, or are they generally disgusted when they find out that a boy likes them?

Depends on the guy. I think in many instances, there's a bit of flattery in knowing that someone is interested but it again, it depends on who is taking interest.

 

[Papersock]

Should I bring flowers for the first time? She might get the wrong message if I don't bring flowers.

I wouldn't bring flowers the first time. Keep it informal.

What do you think? Either way, your plan kicks the crud out of my plan, it's a lot simpler and doesn't have so many variables...

I think not all girls react the same way. Although most girls would probably prefer you be direct rather than feel like that might have a stalker.

step 1 define yourself
step 2 gather courage
step 3 find girl about your age
step 4 let her know you exist
step 5 when she's alone ask her out
step 6 set date/go to step 3

Also, I think this is good advice.

 

[Alceste]

Hmm. I have an idea. I think what I'm afraid of is that the girl will try to use the administration or some authority as a tool to punish me for liking her, as three out of four of my crushes have done in the past.

That's a sure sign that there is something very wrong with your strategy. Maybe if it was one out of four crushes who turned to an authority it would be her problem - three out of four means it's yours.

Girls don't do that to "punish" people "for liking them". They do it because something you've done - or some series of acts - has come off so threatening they don't feel like they can confront you directly and they feel they need to be protected from you because you might be dangerous.

Judging by your plan, I can kind of see how a girl would get that impression. Giving gifts before even having a direct conversation with a girl is likely to set the "creepy" alarm bells ringing right off the bat. Even if it doesn't, it's going to kill your chances, because it seems a little desperate, and girls don't like desperate men.

The step involving watching to see how she reacts is stalker behavior. That's what stalkers do. Maybe your motives are innocent and good-hearted, but if she doesn't know you, how is she supposed to be able to tell the difference between you and a stalker?

The convoluted stuff about getting a vase and keeping the receipt and all that will make you look like a crazy person. She almost certainly will know the flowers are from you. If she doesn't already know how you feel from reading your body language, in a crowded dorm someone will probably see you and tell her it was you. The more effort you put into trying to hide the fact that it's you, the creepier and crazier you'll seem.

I understand it can be tough to figure out the rules, and that you're not a creepy / crazy / stalker person - just a guy trying to figure out the rules - but if you don't want another crush to "get the wrong idea" and report you to authorities, you should definitely take the advice of Papersock.

Keep it casual and just strike up a conversation, no spies, no presents, no plans. And be prepared to take no for an answer. There are plenty of fish in the sea.

 

[T-Dawg]

That's a sure sign that there is something very wrong with your strategy. Maybe if it was one out of four crushes who turned to an authority it would be her problem - three out of four means it's yours.

No, it's a problem with the authorities (and them). It is not wrong, or it shouldn't be, to express affection by, say, following the subject around, and if the subject does feel uncomfortable, it is her responsibility to tell ME, and not the nearest authority figure.
And having confidential discussions with a teacher to help me feel better after having my heart torn out is NOT a legitimate excuse to be "worried" about me.
Etc. The girls were in the wrong every time. If they legitimately felt the way you say they did, they would have talked it out instead of doing everything in their power to tear me down.

Giving gifts before even having a direct conversation with a girl is likely to set the "creepy" alarm bells ringing right off the bat.

Only 2 of them I started without a gift (in fact, those same 2 I started out with as friends, just as everyone would have recommended), and the one that I did give a gift to at the start, it was just a few cookies (she happened to be sick for a couple days and I thought it'd be nice).

The convoluted stuff about getting a vase and keeping the receipt and all that will make you look like a crazy person.

I am a crazy person, aren't I? I have Asperger's, I read threads on ATS, etc?

Keep it casual and just strike up a conversation, no spies, no presents, no plans.

Ok, that makes sense, I guess... wait, no plans?!? =O
How do I talk to her without a plan?

 

[Nanda]

I am a crazy person, aren't I? I have Asperger's,

Asperger's does not equal crazy and you know it. Stop using it as an excuse.

 

[Nanda]

No, it's a problem with the authorities (and them). It is not wrong, or it shouldn't be, to express affection by, say, following the subject around, and if the subject does feel uncomfortable, it is her responsibility to tell ME, and not the nearest authority figure.

Actually, no. If a person feels they are being stalked, they are not supposed to try to make contact with the stalker, but go straight to the authorities. Making contact can be seen as encouragement to a sick mind. I'm not saying you're a stalker, but if you were in fact making these girls feel uncomfortable, they weren't in the wrong.

 

[Alceste]

No, it's a problem with the authorities (and them). It is not wrong, or it shouldn't be, to express affection by, say, following the subject around, and if the subject does feel uncomfortable, it is her responsibility to tell ME, and not the nearest authority figure.

I'm sure the girls on this thread will pretty much unanimously agree that it is wrong to express affection by following 'the subject' around. I would find that creepy and worrying, and I'm super-friendly. I'll talk to anyone. I'll talk to bums on the street all afternoon. Even the genuinely crazy (manic / schizophrenic) ones. But some guy I didn't know who was following me around? No, I wouldn't talk to him, I'd talk to the police. As tough as it is to hear, those girls did the right thing. I don't think you're dangerous, and YOU don't think you're dangerous, but when you're acting a bit like a dangerous sexual predator, how is a girl supposed to know you're not actually dangerous, but just a little shy? How can she tell the difference between a stalker and a guy who is just 'following her around to express affection'?

I am a crazy person, aren't I? I have Asperger's, I read threads on ATS, etc?

No, Aspergers doesn't make you crazy. Just a little eccentric.

How do I talk to her without a plan?

Start with "Hi" and see where it goes from there.

 

[Papersock]

I know I have come off as creepy without meaning to. :areyoucra

 

[Sunstone]

I think you should only ask out girls you want to be friends with. That's deceptively simple advice. But it seems a lot of people ask out girls they just want to get into the sack with, but would not care to be friends with. And doing that seems to lead to all sorts of problems and even low quality relationships.

 

[monta]

I am going to be blunt with you and tell you that until you accept that your past behaviour was inappropriate and understand that none of these girls were evil and indeed reacted in a normal and intelligent way to being stalked, which whether you like it or not is what you did, then you have little chance of starting a relationship with someone.

You can't force someone to like you, if you like someone and they don't like you back, tough luck, move on with your life.

As many people before me in this thread have said, you need to get to know someone first before you start going out with them, the only way to do this is to put yourself out there and socialise. There is no magical combination of words or actions that will make someone want you, there is no shortcut, you have to put in the time and effort and if you aren't willing to do that, then it should be obvious that you don't consider the benefit worth the effort and don't really want a girlfriend, you just like the idea of having one the way some people like the idea of winning the lottery without ever buying a ticket.