Materialists don't value life all that much

[The Transcended Omniverse]

You keep insisting that. But it's not true to me or to materialists I know. Eternity isn't what life is. So if I did what you're doing then I'm not valuing what life is more pretending it's something it's not. I'm just substituting something else for life.

This would be no different than saying:

"Having my mother for all eternity isn't what is important. I am fine with her forever no longer existing since I don't care about her that much. But I am willing to have her and enjoy her for a limited time. I value her more since her existence is finite."

Do you see how that quoted statement is contradictory? To give up your belief in something lasting forever is having less value towards that thing. But then to say that you value it more by giving up that belief is contradictory.

 

[lovesong]

If a person gives up their comforting belief of living forever for the sake of what is true, then it means they value the truth more than they do living life itself. If they valued living life itself, then they would want to believe that they would live forever regardless if it is true or not.

No, they value truth over delusion. Just because someone admits that life is short does not mean they don't tresure every moment if it.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

No, they value truth over delusion. Just because someone admits that life is short does not mean they don't tresure every moment if it.

It's not admitting, it is if you had a choice. If you had the choice to believe something would last forever or to give up that belief, then if you have chosen to give up that belief, then it means you value the truth more than that said thing. If you valued that thing more, then you would want it to last forever and you would want to believe it would last forever regardless if that is true or not.

 

[lovesong]

It's not admitting, it is if you had a choice. If you had the choice to believe something would last forever or to give up that belief, then if you have chosen to give up that belief, then it means you value the truth more than that said thing. If you valued that thing more, then you would want it to last forever and you would want to believe it would last forever regardless if that is true or not.

Wanting to believe does not equal believing. We do not choose what we believe. Also, do we not, and should we not value truth over all else? If I told you tomorrow you would wake up rich, would you believe it and go about your life acting on it, just because you would like to believe it, or would you value the truth more and be smart about how you spend your money today? You would value the truth, and savor your money. This in no way means you do not value money, but that you value truth over a comforting lie so that you can wisely savor what you actually have.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Wanting to believe does not equal believing. We do not choose what we believe. Also, do we not, and should we not value truth over all else? If I told you tomorrow you would wake up rich, would you believe it and go about your life acting on it, just because you would like to believe it, or would you value the truth more and be smart about how you spend your money today? You would value the truth, and savor your money. This in no way means you do not value money, but that you value truth over a comforting lie so that you can wisely savor what you actually have.

So you value the truth above all else. I value living life itself over the truth. So it is life itself I value over the truth. Yes, you do still value life to at least some degree if you have chosen to give up belief in it lasting forever. However, you would be valuing the truth more.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

People who don't want to live forever do not value life all that much. If they are willing to sacrifice a belief in an eternal afterlife for something else, then they do not value life all that much. Because if they did, then they would want to live forever.

Forever is a long time. If you feel your life is meaningless with a finite life, it's not going to get better with an infinite one.

If they valued that said thing so much, then they would never want to give it up.

Crazy stalker people don't want to give up what they value either. Are they right?

If a person gives up their comforting belief of living forever for the sake of what is true

Not everyone would consider eternity comforting, though.

Refer to my previous post. This a different situation.

Neither the cupboard metaphor nor the gambling metaphor are any different.

If you valued that thing more, then you would want it to last forever and you would want to believe it would last forever regardless if that is true or not.

But even though I believe in an afterlife, your logic is flawed. You SHOULD want to be grounded somewhere in reality. I know people who don't believe in afterlives think those who do are delusional, but still ... how can you value an afterlife when you're essentially giving the finger to the One who made you THIS one?

I value living life itself over the truth.

Well, I guess the only consolation I have is that you only have a finite amount of time to be delusional.

 

[Sunstone]

I value living life itself over the truth.

I think the OP makes that obvious.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I think the OP makes that obvious.

That is where I am getting at. You must not value living life at all that much then if you value the truth more.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you value something, then you would want to believe it lasts forever.

Nothing lasts forever though. And when you know it won't last forever, you want to slow down, savor each bite, and enjoy it while you can because it won't be there forever. If you have unlimited access to your favorite food, how long before the taste becomes stale and you are bored with this food? You can have it whenever, and it no longer seems special. But when you know you're about to eat your favorite food for the last time, you'll treasure each bite, make it last as long as you can, and it will remained valued because it won't get old and dull.

If you had the choice to believe something would last forever or to give up that belief, then if you have chosen to give up that belief, then it means you value the truth more than that said thing.

It is more that I do not value lies or things that cannot be known. I only know for certain that this life is it, so I do value this life. I embrace new experiences, the now, this chance to be alive and breathing.

 

[Quintessence]

That is where I am getting at. You must not value living life at all that much then if you value the truth more.

Again, how about you politely ask those of us who reject the idea of an afterlife why we do so?

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Nothing lasts forever though. And when you know it won't last forever, you want to slow down, savor each bite, and enjoy it while you can because it won't be there forever. If you have unlimited access to your favorite food, how long before the taste becomes stale and you are bored with this food? You can have it whenever, and it no longer seems special. But when you know you're about to eat your favorite food for the last time, you'll treasure each bite, make it last as long as you can, and it will remained valued because it won't get old and dull.

It is more that I do not value lies or things that cannot be known. I only know for certain that this life is it, so I do value this life. I embrace new experiences, the now, this chance to be alive and breathing.

First off, the whole idea of something becoming old and stale it if were to last forever characterizes a person who grows tired. I never grow tired. Therefore, having something last forever brings the greatest joy and meaning to my life. If I were to grow tired of it eventually like you, then I would find myself valuing a finite existence more than an infinite one.

You might think that having a finite existence gives much more meaning and motivation to live this life since it is the only one. However, I would have much more motivation and meaning knowing it would last forever because, like I said, I never grow tired of living. I would not lazy around. I would be motivated and dedicated 24/7 for all eternity. I would be really high and in a good mood for all eternity and never grow tired.

Again, how about you politely ask those of us who reject the idea of an afterlife why we do so?

The truth should be valued over certain things in certain situations. For example, since the truth of smoking is that it will damage you in the long run, then it is good to value the truth over smoking. But when it comes to the belief in the afterlife, then I just see no reason to value the truth over this. There is no harm or damage being done from such a belief. Yes, the belief in the Bible and God does do damage which is why we see so many violent religious people. But as for belief in the eternal afterlife alone, then there is just no reason to value the truth more in this situation.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This would be no different than saying:

"Having my mother for all eternity isn't what is important. I am fine with her forever no longer existing since I don't care about her that much. But I am willing to have her and enjoy her for a limited time. I value her more since her existence is finite."

Do you see how that quoted statement is contradictory? To give up your belief in something lasting forever is having less value towards that thing. But then to say that you value it more by giving up that belief is contradictory.

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between life and fantasy. I have no such issue. Life isn't eternal. So saying that I value life does not mean lying to myself about what life is.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between life and fantasy. I have no such issue. Life isn't eternal. So saying that I value life does not mean lying to myself about what life is.

Doesn't matter if it is a fantasy or not, the very fact that you would choose the truth over the idea of living forever means you do not have that much value towards living.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What difference does it make if life is valued or not by someone? Eternal or otherwise?

 

[LuisDantas]

People who don't want to live forever do not value life all that much.

Uh?

If they are willing to sacrifice a belief in an eternal afterlife for something else, then they do not value life all that much.

Double uh? Are you advocating for attempts at willful self-delusion for no good reason?

Because if they did, then they would want to live forever. They would want to believe in an eternal afterlife. Therefore, the fact that they would want to sacrifice such a belief means they grow tired eventually and wish to just forever remain dead.

That makes no sense whatsoever, you know.

But a person who values life so profoundly would never want that taken away from them. They would want life to last forever. They would want to believe in an eternal blissful afterlife. So the fact that I have such a strong desire to live forever just goes to show you how much I value living and being happy. That makes me much more of a person than any materialist who would be willing to give up their belief in the eternal blissful afterlife.

Edit: If a person gives up their comforting belief of living forever for the sake of what is true, then it means they value the truth more than they do living life itself. If they valued living life itself, then they would want to believe that they would live forever regardless if it is true or not.

Why do you think love needs lies?

 

[LuisDantas]

That is where I am getting at. You must not value living life at all that much then if you value the truth more.

Being afraid of the idea of a limited lifetime does not translate into loving life.

If anything, it hints at insecurities about the worth of life.

 

[Parsimony]

So you value delusion over truth when the delusion suits your interests. Okay then...

 

[YmirGF]

That is where I am getting at. You must not value living life at all that much then if you value the truth more.

Truth is relative to understanding and has no connection to how much one values living life. Personally, I'm not especially hung up on "The Truth" ®©

 

[Rick O'Shez]

...."The Truth" ®©

That's just a cheap copy, what you should really be seeking is the "Ultimate Truth", which is like being one with "Ultimate Reality"....or is it "Absolute Reality", I often get these brands mixed up.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

First off, the whole idea of something becoming old and stale it if were to last forever characterizes a person who grows tired.

Not necessarily. Even pain can come to be tolerated (the psychology term escapes memory at the moment), and even a grand spectacle becomes mundane when it's all you know.

If I were to grow tired of it eventually like you

It's nothing to do with tiring of life, but accepting the facts that every living things dies, as they must for life to continue. Death is the completion of one life cycle and the continuation of many. After I've ate my cake, I don't whine or hope for more, but I enjoy and appreciate what I had. I simply do not need to know that of course I'll eventually have more cake to enjoy and value what I had.

However, I would have much more motivation and meaning knowing it would last forever

Why is that? Is not just being alive in the here and now not enough to embrace your existence and treasure it while it lasts?

I would be really high and in a good mood for all eternity and never grow tired.

That would eventually become boring. The satisfaction of a struggle doesn't come from completing it, it comes from the pain, tears, blood, sweat, frustration, and those rough times make the memories all the more sweeter. Without challenges and struggles, your achievements and efforts are small.
As for being high all the time, I wouldn't want that either. Be it from neurochemicals or various substances, it's not something I'd want all the time.

Doesn't matter if it is a fantasy or not, the very fact that you would choose the truth over the idea of living forever means you do not have that much value towards living.

I used to be suicidal and even attempted it once. But my perspective on things changed and despite the hardships I face and have faced, I learned to appreciate and value life, and to enjoy the life that I know I do have. One of my favorite songs is Parabol/Parabola by Tool, a song about celebrating life, and just one line sums it up pretty well:
Recognize this as a holy gift and celebrate this chance to be alive and breathing