Materialists don't value life all that much

[Jumi]

Refer to my previous post. This a different situation.

Devaluing truth doesn't make you value things more than wishing some things about them were true.

Let's give another example, a child values their life if they stay up the whole night because they are avoiding sleep. Is is true that they value life more by forcing themselves to stay awake than a child who goes to sleep and wakes up refreshed to enjoy the next day?

 

[idav]

Edit: If a person gives up their comforting belief of living forever for the sake of what is true, then it means they value the truth more than they do living life itself. If they valued living life itself, then they would want to believe that they would live forever regardless if it is true or not.

People who believe in a perfect afterlife, value this peaceful forever more than this life. A person who does not believe in an afterlife would actually value this life even more so as if it were something that does't last and has to be appreciated while it does last. All this has little to do with what a person wants to believe

 

[YmirGF]

People who believe in a perfect afterlife, value this peaceful forever more than this life. A person who does not believe in an afterlife would actually value this life even more so as if it were something that does't last and has to be appreciated while it does last. All this has little to do with what a person wants to believe

In general I do agree, but then you have weirdo's like me. I know there is an "afterlife", if that's what folks want to call it, and upon experiencing that reality, it gave me a profound appreciation for my physical life because I knew that it was fleeting and had to be explored and each moment cherished, both the good and the bad - because - each moment could be ones last.

 

[idav]

In general I do agree, but then you have weirdo's like me. I know there is an "afterlife", if that's what folks want to call it, and upon experiencing that reality, it gave me a profound appreciation for my physical life because I knew that it was fleeting and had to be explored and each moment cherished, both the good and the bad - because - each moment could be ones last.

Is that like living on the edge?

 

[YmirGF]

Is that like living on the edge?

Pretty much, but without the self-destructive tendencies of the Toxic Twins.
I've always loved that song. I can certainly relate to it.


I actually met the drummer and the bassist from Aerosmith when they came into the niche computer store I was managing in the mid 80's. The band was in Vancouver recording Permanent Vacation at Little Mountain Sound with Bob Rock.

 

[Quintessence]

The truth should be valued over certain things in certain situations. For example, since the truth of smoking is that it will damage you in the long run, then it is good to value the truth over smoking. But when it comes to the belief in the afterlife, then I just see no reason to value the truth over this. There is no harm or damage being done from such a belief. Yes, the belief in the Bible and God does do damage which is why we see so many violent religious people. But as for belief in the eternal afterlife alone, then there is just no reason to value the truth more in this situation.

Okay. So in other words, the purpose of this thread is for you to tell us what you think and completely ignore what other people think (and then proceed to put thoughts and opinions in their heads that may not actually be there)? You are absolutely free to believe what you want about this stuff, MattMVS7, what I have a problem with in this thread are the claims you're making about the people who disagree with you that are simply not true. You have made at least three false claims in this thread:

• False Claim 1: those who reject the idea of an eternal afterlife for the individual do not value life. As one of those people, I think no such thing, thank you very much.
• False Claim 2: those who reject the idea of an eternal afterlife for the individual value truth (whatever that is) more than living. Again, as one of those people, I think no such rubbish, thanks.
• False Claim 3: those who reject the idea of an eternal afterlife for the individual are materialists. No, I am not. Now quit telling me what I think without bothering to ask.

Please do not presume to tell me, or anyone else who disagrees with you, what we think and why we do what we do.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Okay. So in other words, the purpose of this thread is for you to tell us what you think and completely ignore what other people think (and then proceed to put thoughts and opinions in their heads that may not actually be there)? You are absolutely free to believe what you want about this stuff, MattMVS7, what I have a problem with in this thread are the claims you're making about the people who disagree with you that are simply not true. You have made at least three false claims in this thread:

• False Claim 1: those who reject the idea of an eternal afterlife for the individual do not value life. As one of those people, I think no such thing, thank you very much.
• False Claim 2: those who reject the idea of an eternal afterlife for the individual value truth (whatever that is) more than living. Again, as one of those people, I think no such rubbish, thanks.
• False Claim 3: those who reject the idea of an eternal afterlife for the individual are materialists. No, I am not. Now quit telling me what I think without bothering to ask.

Please do not presume to tell me, or anyone else who disagrees with you, what we think and why we do what we do.

Understood. I apologize. But let me just say this. If I had absolutely no need whatsoever to live in eternal bliss, then I would find this life much valuable. I would find complete meaning in it. But I am unable to get rid of this need. It is as if this need is built into me and I can never just simply break free of it and live a meaningful life here in this one life I have.

 

[YmirGF]

Understood. I apologize. But let me just say this. If I had absolutely no need whatsoever to live in eternal bliss, then I would find this life much valuable. I would find complete meaning in it. But I am unable to get rid of this need. It is as if this need is built into me and I can never just simply break free of it and live a meaningful life here in this one life I have.

I feel sad for you, @MattMVS7 The eternal bliss you seek is already alive and well within you. If you are diligent you will penetrate through the clouds of misunderstanding and find that unrelenting bliss. I won't say it is easy, but there is no need to put off discovering it within this life. That is, in my opinion, what life is all about. Find your peace, find your centre and therein you will bask in your eternal bliss.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I feel sad for you, @MattMVS7 The eternal bliss you seek is already alive and well within you. If you are diligent you will penetrate through the clouds of misunderstanding and find that unrelenting bliss. I won't say it is easy, but there is no need to put off discovering it within this life. That is, in my opinion, what life is all about. Find your peace, find your centre and therein you will bask in your eternal bliss.

I know what you are trying to do. You are hoping that I can switch this need over to this life. So that I can instead be happy and find meaning in this life. This doesn't work. This need to literally live in eternal bliss is something built into me and I am unable to break free of it so that I can enjoy, be happy, and find meaning in this life I have.

 

[YmirGF]

I know what you are trying to do. You are hoping that I can switch this need over to this life. So that I can instead be happy and find meaning in this life. This doesn't work. This need to literally live in eternal bliss is something built into me and I am unable to break free of it so that I can enjoy, be happy, and find meaning in this life I have.

You have a very peculiar outlook. I hope it works out for you.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

You have a very peculiar outlook. I hope it works out for you.

It is not working out for me since I do not believe in the afterlife. So it is a need that is being unmet which is making my life miserable and meaningless.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Doesn't matter if it is a fantasy or not, the very fact that you would choose the truth over the idea of living forever means you do not have that much value towards living.

If you pretended that your mother was wonder woman because that's what you really want to be true, then you're not valuing your mother. You're valuing something that your mother isn't. The same is true of life. Deluding yourself into believing having eternity is the only way to have life is just trying to make life into something it isn't. You don't value life, you value delusion.

 

[YmirGF]

It is not working out for me since I do not believe in the afterlife. So it is a need that is being unmet which is making my life miserable and meaningless.

Then I would seriously forget everything you have ever been told about possible "afterlife" affairs. It's obviously do you no good. Be Here Now.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Then I would seriously forget everything you have ever been told about possible "afterlife" affairs. It's obviously do you no good. Be Here Now.

It doesn't work. I don't know what to do here. This need is something built into me and as long as I have it, then my life will always remain this way. I am not like the normal average person who has no need to live forever in eternal bliss, grows old and tired of life in which life gets stale after some time, and then wishes to forever remain dead. The beauty of me living happy never grows old. I never tire of it.

 

[YmirGF]

It doesn't work. I don't know what to do here. This need is something built into me and as long as I have it, then my life will always remain this way. I am not like the normal average person who has no need to live forever in eternal bliss, grows old and tired of life in which life gets stale after some time, and then wishes to forever remain dead. The beauty of me living happy never grows old. I never tire of it.

OK. I'm getting confused. Are you happy now? Yes/No? Are you living for some unattainable ideal?

 

[idav]

It doesn't work. I don't know what to do here. This need is something built into me and as long as I have it, then my life will always remain this way. I am not like the normal average person who has no need to live forever in eternal bliss, grows old and tired of life in which life gets stale after some time, and then wishes to forever remain dead. The beauty of me living happy never grows old. I never tire of it.

Wanting to survive is a natural built in instinct. We are only willing to deny that instinct if we feel there is an afterlife where we no longer have to worry about losing life. The will to live forever is there whether or not there is an afterlife, an afterlife simply makes it easier to take the life we have now for granted.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Wanting to survive is a natural built in instinct. We are only willing to deny that instinct if we feel there is an afterlife where we no longer have to worry about losing life. The will to live forever is there whether or not there is an afterlife, an afterlife simply makes it easier to take the life we have now for granted.

I guess my life will always be miserable and meaningless then as long as I have this in-built need.

 

[idav]

I guess my life will always be miserable and meaningless then as long as I have this in-built need.

It is death thats miserable not life. Thats why people prefer an afterlife in the first place, why people prefer there loved ones are in a better place when they pass. Its not supposed to be unhealthy to want that, hope is our best ally, but the face of death should certainly make people not take this life for granted in order to get the most out of it.

It might even be a worse scenario to waste a life trying to achieve an afterlife that doesn't exist, but would be in blissful ignorance. I guess some things are better not to know, but its not knowledge thats the enemy, the enemy is not knowing how to extend our lives to the fullest capacity.

Science is definitaly working on the issue.
http://www.livescience.com/6967-hang-25-year-wait-immortality.html

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

It is death thats miserable not life. Thats why people prefer an afterlife in the first place, why people prefer there loved ones are in a better place when they pass. Its not supposed to be unhealthy to want that, hope is our best ally, but the face of death should certainly make people not take this life for granted in order to get the most out of it.

It might even be a worse scenario to waste a life trying to achieve an afterlife that doesn't exist, but would be in blissful ignorance. I guess some things are better not to know, but its not knowledge thats the enemy, the enemy is not knowing how to extend our lives to the fullest capacity.

Science is definitaly working on the issue.
http://www.livescience.com/6967-hang-25-year-wait-immortality.html

It is only when you have no need for something that you are able to find meaning and joy. For example, if someone had a need for money or a fancy car, then as long as they don't have that, then their lives will be meaningless since that is what they are wanting. That is what they are desiring. But if they had no desire for those things, then they would be happy and live a meaningful life. So as long as I have this in-built desire to live forever in eternal bliss, then I will always be like this. My life will always seem meaningless to me and I will always be miserable like this.

 

[idav]

It is only when you have no need for something that you are able to find meaning and joy. For example, if someone had a need for money or a fancy car, then as long as they don't have that, then their lives will be meaningless since that is what they are wanting. That is what they are desiring. But if they had no desire for those things, then they would be happy and live a meaningful life. So as long as I have this in-built desire to live forever in eternal bliss, then I will always be like this. My life will always seem meaningless to me and I will always be miserable like this.

That is a lot like a lost love. We can put our whole life meaning into it but that is a choice. Losing the love our world can seemingly fall apart and meaning is very much what we choose it to be.

Also it isn't as if we we know death is the end, we know no such thing. Belief in any afterlife is also a choice. I have still yet to see your proof that death is the end, nobody has such evidence.